Getting to grips with God

[firstfloor]

You'd encourage children to run free and discourage marriage? Interesting.

Marriage is a partnership of equals, surely?

[JonathanL]

You're either a slave to Christ, or a slave to sin. The man who thinks he belongs to no one but himself belongs in the latter category.

[Tassman]

You're either a slave to Christ, or a slave to sin.

...OR

The man who thinks he belongs to no one but himself belongs in the latter category.

[JonathanL]

...OR

No, that man still belongs in either of the two categories.


I'm only repeating what I understand the Bible to be saying about the state of mankind. I could care less if that makes you think I'm being judgemental or not.

[Tassman]

No, that man still belongs in either of the two categories.

[firstfloor]

You're either a slave to Christ, or a slave to sin. The man who thinks he belongs to no one but himself belongs in the latter category.

This is your indoctrination speaking. It is designed to make you seek your own servitude; a clever trick, a clever lie.

[firstfloor]

[seer]

FF, you do understand how inane this is. If there is no god, there are no universal or transcendent moral values then what constitutes a "better" person is arbitrary and culturally relative. You have successfully cut off the ethical branch you are sitting on.

[One Bad Pig]

Marriage is a partnership of equals, surely?

You're shifting the goalposts, surely?

[firstfloor]

FF, you do understand how inane this is. If there is no god, there are no universal or transcendent moral values then what constitutes a "better" person is arbitrary and culturally relative. You have successfully cut off the ethical branch you are sitting on.

This is exactly how it looks. Despite that we still make progress because we are infused with a sense of justice and would have it widespread were it not for religious backwardness.

[seer]

This is exactly how it looks. Despite that we still make progress because we are infused with a sense of justice and would have it widespread were it not for religious backwardness.

That is pure nonsense, whose infused sense of justice are you speaking of? Who decides what progress is? You have nothing... Just your culturally inculcated sense of ethics, which is no more valid or correct that any other culturally indoctrinated moral sense - past or present. In other words, you have been brainwashed to hold certain moral positions.

[Tassman]

That is pure nonsense, whose infused sense of justice are you speaking of? Who decides what progress is? You have nothing... Just your culturally inculcated sense of ethics, which is no more valid or correct that any other culturally indoctrinated moral sense - past or present. In other words, you have been brainwashed to hold certain moral positions.

You too have a Yours is Christian-based, just as it would be Muslim-based if you were born and bred in Pakistan, or secular/atheist if you were raised in Norway. The last, BTW, is ranked by the UN Human Development Index as the most socially and economically just society in the world. So who needs God to be good?

[Jedidiah]

I reject any evaluation of anything from the UN. I prefer an honest evaluation.

[firstfloor]

That is pure nonsense, whose infused sense of justice are you speaking of? Who decides what progress is? You have nothing... Just your culturally inculcated sense of ethics, which is no more valid or correct that any other culturally indoctrinated moral sense - past or present. In other words, you have been brainwashed to hold certain moral positions.

It is true that different societies evolve different moral codes. It is possible however to rank different moralities by application of simple principles of natural justice. That leads to development of legal codes. One such principle might be that if I do not harm you, you are not justified in harming me. Another might be that the harm you do to me is proportional to the harm I have done to you, or, say, the payment I am due to you is proportional to the goods you have delivered to me. The fundamental question underlying morality is - what is fair?

The great problem with religiously based moral systems is that they are both obsolete and overrated. Obsolete because of when they were written and overrated because they deceitfully claim supernatural authority. Would anyone here wish to live in a society where strict Sharia was practiced? No! Why? Because you have experienced a superior moral system and you reject the outmoded one.

[seer]

It is true that different societies evolve different moral codes. It is possible however to rank different moralities by application of simple principles of natural justice. That leads to development of legal codes. One such principle might be that if I do not harm you, you are not justified in harming me. Another might be that the harm you do to me is proportional to the harm I have done to you, or, say, the payment I am due to you is proportional to the goods you have delivered to me. The fundamental question underlying morality is - what is fair?

First point is that there is no such thing as "natural justice." Nature, nor the natural laws that created us care in the least about justice. The classic golden rule, do under others, is no more valid than the other golden rule; he with the most gold rules.