Of course they are meaningful contributions. Even if you don't accept them as true they are still one possible way to answer why simply doing good things isn't enough to gain access to heaven. This isn't a discussion about whether or not humans are inherently sinful, or what constitutes true (uncorrupt, rather) human nature, but a discussion of why doing good things isn't enough, given a Christian worldview.
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Pascal's Wager: What Have I Lost?
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostThe Egyptian Christians killed by the ISIS might disagree with that.
However, the suidide bomber DID die for his beliefs.Last edited by firstfloor; 04-23-2017, 04:01 AM.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostOf course they are meaningful contributions. Even if you don't accept them as true they are still one possible way to answer why simply doing good things isn't enough to gain access to heaven. This isn't a discussion about whether or not humans are inherently sinful, or what constitutes true (uncorrupt, rather) human nature, but a discussion of why doing good things isn't enough, given a Christian worldview.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou're presenting an argument grounded in unverifiable faith-statements to SoR and myself, both atheists. Why would this be meaningful?
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The depravity of man is at the same time the most empirically proven fact and the most intellectually denied - Malcolm Muggeridge
I wouldn't want to go through life with my every thought projected onto a screen above my head so that everyone could see. Would you?
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Originally posted by stfoskey15 View PostIt was probably my step-dad's pacifist Mennonite views that gave me the impression what he believed was what all good Christians believed. And I never connected all that much to people my age at church, so I was ignorant of what other Christians believed on the matter. My mom had similar views as my step-dad and my biological dad was more lenient, but I spent less time with him.
I don't buy that we're already condemned for our sins. Shouldn't the good things we do be able to balance out the bad things we do?
doing good doesn't erase the bad you have done. it still happened.
the good news is that God does give us a way to "erase" the bad and it takes nothing but accepting his forgiveness and choosing him as your Lord.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postthe good news is that God does give us a way to "erase" the bad and it takes nothing but accepting his forgiveness and choosing him as your Lord.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostDo you suppose that the suicide bomber sat down with the Christians to discuss their options and that he would have gone home had the Christians preferred to convert to Islam?
However, the suidide bomber DID die for his beliefs.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by Jude View PostThe depravity of man is at the same time the most empirically proven fact and the most intellectually denied - Malcolm Muggeridge
I wouldn't want to go through life with my every thought projected onto a screen above my head so that everyone could see. Would you?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postif you were to murder someone, for example, would saving someone later cancel out the murder?
doing good doesn't erase the bad you have done. it still happened.
the good news is that God does give us a way to "erase" the bad and it takes nothing but accepting his forgiveness and choosing him as your Lord.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postwho said anything like that? God doesn't punish you for not believing.
Thanks Sparko.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostEvil exists on a scale. The fact that you haven't murdered anyone doesn't mean you haven't performed evil. Opposition to God is in itself evil.
...
You haven't shown it to be "obviously perfectly moral and natural" at all.
"Opposition to God is in itself evil" fits right in with the claims of authoritarian cult-leaders like David Koresh and Aravindan Balakrishnan that outsiders are enemies who cannot be trusted and who are out to destroy the truth.
You are better than this.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostOf course they are meaningful contributions. Even if you don't accept them as true they are still one possible way to answer why simply doing good things isn't enough to gain access to heaven.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI suppose it's not meaningful if you're unable to view things from perspectives that are different from your own.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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