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Whether humans can be righteous and meet God's standards

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  • #121
    Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Our belief in truth is at issue. I am of the opinion that over the identiy of truth Christianity can, in theory, be falsified.
    John 18:37c,
    . . . Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. . . .
    I deduce the fundamental reason (John 10:26) people do not believe in God's Christ is their problem with truth. Your explanation, I think, is indicative of this phenomena.
    OK. You have a book in which you have placed your faith. No matter what I say about how I think, or what I believe or why I believe it, if that book says something different, you will ignore whatever I say and believe the book. If the book says I am lying, you will believe I am lying just because the book says I am lying. In such a circumstance, I don't see much point in continuing this conversation.
    You are proving my point. The fact you fail to see truth. Two contradictory things cannot be true. Not possible. You are arguing a subjective view of truth. My truth versus your truth. That is not truth. Truth is true regardless of your or my opinion. While we both might have an opinion on something being true, our opinion is not what makes anything true. What is true is true regardless of what you or I think.

    And you missed the point of my argument. If anyone who is not a Christian can show they believe in what is really true and not come to believe in God's Christ - they have falsified Christianity. They do it by presenting what Christianity really teaches and shows what is being claimed is not true by showing what is really undeniably true.
    Last edited by 37818; 05-20-2017, 10:33 AM.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment

    • #122
      Hmmm... Some truths are different. Right now (the time this message is being posted) it is 1:01 am.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment

      • #123
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
        Hmmm... Some truths are different. Right now (the time this message is being posted) it is 1:01 am.
        Your post time is shown as 8:32 am. Different time zone setting being used here by you, me and others.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment

        • #124
          There you go: some truths are not universal.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment

          • #125
            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            You are arguing a subjective view of truth. My truth versus your truth.
            No, I'm not.

            Comment

            • #126
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              There you go: some truths are not universal.
              No. Your understanding is flawed. Time zones are time zones. My time zone is not your time zone. The fact there are conversions of the time for one time zone to another.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment

              • #127
                Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                No, I'm not.
                Well, make the case for absolute truth.

                Give the explanation of why, how we know comes before what we know.

                Give the explanation of how we know things.

                Well, why have you not falsified Jesus' claim (John 18:37; John 10:26-28)? What are you waiting for?
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment

                • #128
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  Well, make the case for absolute truth.
                  Why should I? I have not affirmed absolute truth.

                  Comment

                  • #129
                    Truth is always absolute. You just have to clearly define it.

                    It is absolutely true that it was 1:01 local time in Australia when Tabibito posted his message.

                    Comment

                    • #130
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Truth is always absolute.
                      If that is the case, then "absolute truth" is a redundancy.

                      Comment

                      • #131
                        Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                        If that is the case, then "absolute truth" is a redundancy.
                        It describes the degree of truth you are telling. You can always tell a partial truth. It means you are holding back some truth, or lying. But truth is what corresponds with reality. It is a FACT. Not an interpretation.

                        Comment

                        • #132
                          Originally posted by Sparko
                          Truth is always absolute.

                          Originally posted by Doug Shaver
                          If that is the case, then "absolute truth" is a redundancy.
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          It describes the degree of truth you are telling. You can always tell a partial truth.
                          So, what you really meant to say was that truth is always absolute except when it's a partial truth?

                          Comment

                          • #133
                            Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                            So, what you really meant to say was that truth is always absolute except when it's a partial truth?
                            no even then the truth is absolute. The description is partially correct. The facts are absolute even if you don't know them completely.

                            Example.

                            Bob kills Fred with a knife he bought from Big Lots. That is the truth. It is absolute.

                            Policeman Jim investigates and determines that someone killed Fred with something sharp. He has no idea it was Bob, or it was a knife or where it was bought it from. So "Fred was murdered" is a partial truth, as is "Fred is dead" - the absolute truth is that Bob killed Fred with a knife he bought from Big Lots.
                            Last edited by Sparko; 05-24-2017, 09:19 AM.

                            Comment

                            • #134
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              no even then the truth is absolute.
                              Then my observation stands. If truth is always absolute, then "absolute truth" is a redundancy.

                              Comment

                              • #135
                                Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                                Then my observation stands. If truth is always absolute, then "absolute truth" is a redundancy.
                                ok. I guess you could use "partial and complete truth" then.

                                Or maybe "absolute truth" could still refer to not mixing truth with a lie. "Fred was Murdered by Jim" would be partially true (Fred was murdered) and partially lie (by Jim) while "Fred was murdered by Bob" would be the absolute truth.


                                But I don't see anyway that truth can be subjective (it might be true for you but not true for me). You can describe something subjectively, like saying "I like ice-cream" and you could say "that might be true for you but not for me" but the absolute truth is "Sparko likes ice-cream and Doug does not"

                                Comment

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