Counterfeits.

[37818]

My point is that three major denominations have different messages about how man can be saved. You earlier claimed God's message was not garbled. That would imply that all three messages are correct, despite disagreeing on this vitally important issue.

I have literally no idea how your response here addresses that at all.

There is only one Biblical gospel for salvation. There are essentials and there are secondary issues. The secondary issues are never a matter of salvation. There is only one way of salvation.

[Jedidiah]

You are a Christian, can you tell me if I got it wrong?

1. Does God want his message to be received by mankind?

2. Does God care if the message is garbled?

3. Is God capable of (i.e., sufficiently powerful) ensuring the message is not garbled?

From what I have read of the Christian religion, I think the answers are "yes, "yes" and "yes" respectively. If you can say what I have got wrong, perhaps we can discuss it.

Clearly you have it wrong. Since I am not a prophet I can not tell you what God's ultimate purpose is, but since your conclusion is wrong . . .

[Jedidiah]

My point is that three major denominations have different messages about how man can be saved. You earlier claimed God's message was not garbled. That would imply that all three messages are correct, despite disagreeing on this vitally important issue.

It would appear that you do not understand the three denominations you are using as an example. All three teach salvation by faith.

[Meh Gerbil]

I am arguing that the difference between genuine Christianity and its counterfeits is a matter of salvation. So what I was referring to is what all the counterfeits have in common that is contrary to genuine Christianity. The example I cited (Matthew 7:21-23). The difference between trusting in one's own faith plus works versus trusting in the finished work of Christ alone.

I'd go a bit further: The difference between Christianity and the world system is grace.
The counterfeits are just the world system recast in Christian terminology.

[Trout]

I'd go a bit further: The difference between Christianity and the world system is grace.
The counterfeits are just the world system recast in Christian terminology.

Wut does "recast" mean?

[Meh Gerbil]

Wut does "recast" mean?

When I break both of your legs again they'll need to be recast.

[rogue06]

When I break both of your legs again they'll need to be recast.

I thought recast is what happens when a TV program goes into syndication

[Meh Gerbil]

I thought recast is what happens when a TV program goes into syndication

Nothing destroys a good discussion like defining the terms.
Thanks Trout, you killed another perfectly good thread.

[The Pixie]

There is only one Biblical gospel for salvation. There are essentials and there are secondary issues. The secondary issues are never a matter of salvation. There is only one way of salvation.

Have Protestant and Orthodox and Catholic churches ALL got the right message with regards to salvation?

[Doug Shaver]

In order for there to be a counterfeit, there has to be the genuine article.

Christianity is a genuine religion. So are all the others. You are the one saying the others are not genuine.

Only what is deemed to be of value is counterfeited.

Right, but the key term there is "deemed." Most people think religion is valuable. They just disagree about which one has the most value, and some (but not all, by any means) think their own is the only one with any value at all.

[Doug Shaver]

God's message is not garbled.

If that were so, there would never have been any religious wars.

[Doug Shaver]

Like the Loch Ness it is something people want to believe. [Why?]

That is an interesting enough question, all right. But more interesting to me is the way it demonstrates that a desire to believe can be sufficient to produce the belief.

[tabibito]

Garbled? or ... Ignored?
"You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone" has to be removed from the Bible before A and C could be viable. Not to mention that "alone" is a small addition to the text introduced by Luther, and "faith" is never (to the best of my knowledge) stated in isolation as a factor in salvation.

See the point here is that Protestant and Orthodox and Catholic churches disagree on this vital issue, which to my mind means two of them (at least) have garbled the message right.

And every time I point this out you seem to duck the issue.

Have Protestant and Orthodox and Catholic churches ALL got the right message with regards to salvation?

If anyone "got the right message" in full, all debate would be over: the one who had it right would stand out like an A380 in a flock of Cessnas.

[The Pixie]

Garbled? or ... Ignored?
"You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone" has to be removed from the Bible before A and C could be viable. Not to mention that "alone" is a small addition to the text introduced by Luther, and "faith" is never (to the best of my knowledge) stated in isolation as a factor in salvation.

So of the three branches of Christianity (Protestant, Catholic and Othodox), you think two of them ignored God's message (presumably the two you do not belong to)? And for centuries, God has allowed these huge organisations to spread misunformation in his name?

If anyone "got the right message" in full, all debate would be over: the one who had it right would stand out like an A380 in a flock of Cessnas.

So you think no one has the right message? What does that say about God's communication skills?

[Sparko]

Have Protestant and Orthodox and Catholic churches ALL got the right message with regards to salvation?

The answer is "yes"

Your understanding on salvation in the various churches is flawed. No Orthodox or Catholic church will tell you that you are saved by anything other than God's grace and faith in Jesus' sacrifice. The works in Catholic and Orthodox churches do not save you.