Counterfeits.

[Tassman]

You are basically saying the same thing: you will not believe anything that proves God to be real. You really don't need to keep repeating yourself in different ways. I get it. You are close-minded and wouldn't believe in God if he stood right in front of you and did anything you asked of him.

He will probably be tossing you into hell after you die and you will be saying "I still don't believe you exiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssstt" on the way down.

Probably! In the unlikely event this occurred.

[Sparko]

I was giving you hyptotheticals. You can't even allow for God to exist in a hypothetical situation. That's pretty sad and close-minded.

The only reason I am continuing this conversation is because you keep making yourself look worse and worse with each round. Even your fellow atheists are telling you that you are wrong at this point. And you STILL continue to put your foot in your mouth.

Your lack of self-awareness is fascinating.

[Tassman]

I was giving you hyptotheticals. You can't even allow for God to exist in a hypothetical situation.

That's pretty sad and close-minded.

[Sparko]

You really need to buy a dictionary and look up "hypothetical"


If you don't even consider it a possibility to be proven or disproven then yes, you are close-minded and a waste of time.

[Roy]

Please desist. Some-one might think your arguments are typical for atheists.

Alternatively, you might consider becoming an apologist. You'd fit right in.

[Sparko]

Please desist. Some-one might think your arguments are typical for atheists.

Alternatively, you might consider becoming an apologist. You'd fit right in.

maybe a fundy apologist. I have always said that Tassman is a fundy atheist. He is the flip side of someone like Darfius.

[Tassman]

Please desist. Some-one might think your arguments are typical for atheists.

Alternatively, you might consider becoming an apologist. You'd fit right in.

The ever predictable response was: God always answers prayer but sometimes the answer is no. In short, no answer that "sincere prayer was reliable".

[Tassman]

You really need to buy a dictionary and look up "hypothetical"



If you don't even consider it a possibility to be proven or disproven then yes, you are close-minded and a waste of time.

I admit that I find it difficult to consider the existence of a god to be a possibility, any god.

[JonathanL]

The ever predictable response was: God always answers prayer but sometimes the answer is no. In short, no answer that "sincere prayer was reliable".

Sparko's answer was "What do you consider "reliable?" That God always has to grant your wish? He is God, not a genie.", which isn't even close to "God always answers prayer but sometimes the answer is no" but rather "God isn't even obliged to answer your prayer in the first place, no matter how sincere you are".

Which is a perfectly reasonable answer. We're not in a position to demand any thing from God in the first place; whether or not our prayers are answered depends solely on God's will.

Why would you even be so stupid as to argue that God should obey your every whim simply to prove to you that He exists?

[Sea of red]

Sparko's answer was "What do you consider "reliable?" That God always has to grant your wish? He is God, not a genie.", which isn't even close to "God always answers prayer but sometimes the answer is no" but rather "God isn't even obliged to answer your prayer in the first place, no matter how sincere you are".

Which is a perfectly reasonable answer. We're not in a position to demand any thing from God in the first place; whether or not our prayers are answered depends solely on God's will.

Why would you even be so stupid as to argue that God should obey your every whim simply to prove to you that He exists?

Who said anything about prayer being dependent on our 'every whim'? Certainly wasn't me. I specifically used the word reliable to be clear I expected no such thing, but apparently that wasn't enough.

[Tassman]

Sparko's answer was "What do you consider "reliable?" That God always has to grant your wish? He is God, not a genie.", which isn't even close to "God always answers prayer but sometimes the answer is no" but rather "God isn't even obliged to answer your prayer in the first place, no matter how sincere you are".

Which is a perfectly reasonable answer. We're not in a position to demand any thing from God in the first place; whether or not our prayers are answered depends solely on God's will.

Why would you even be so stupid as to argue that God should obey your every whim simply to prove to you that He exists?

So the response to SoR's possible reason for believing in God, namely is that it's not a good reason to believe in God, because God doesn't have to answer prayer. I see. One can only pray to God on the off-chance that he might feel inclined to answer.

[JonathanL]

Who said anything about prayer being dependent on our 'every whim'? Certainly wasn't me. I specifically used the word reliable to be clear I expected no such thing, but apparently that wasn't enough.

Apparently you expect your debate partners to be mind-readers. That the word reliable was used to indicate that you weren't expecting God to bow to our every whim as long as we're sincere is hardly the first thing that comes to mind when I read your statement in post #156. But in any case, it doesn't change much, if at all. The notion that God not answering "sincere" prayers points to His non-existence is still a dumb idea. There are a variety of reasons why God won't answer prayer:

Source: James 1:5-8 ESV

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Psalm 66:16-20 ESV

16 Come and hear, all you who fear God,
and I will tell what he has done for my soul.
17 I cried to him with my mouth,
and high praise was on my tongue.
18 If I had cherished iniquity in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened.
19 But truly God has listened;
he has attended to the voice of my prayer.
20 Blessed be God,
because he has not rejected my prayer
or removed his steadfast love from me!

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Proverbs 28:9 ESV

If one turns away his ear from hearing the law,
even his prayer is an abomination.

© Copyright Original Source

[JonathanL]

So the response to SoR's possible reason for believing in God, namely is that it's not a good reason to believe in God, because God doesn't have to answer prayer. I see. One can only pray to God on the off-chance that he might feel inclined to answer.

Answered prayer is certainly a good reason to believe in God. The converse (i.e not getting your prayer answered) isn't a good reason not to believe in God, however.

[Tassman]

Answered prayer is certainly a good reason to believe in God. The converse (i.e not getting your prayer answered) isn't a good reason not to believe in God, however.

Seems a perfectly good reason to me. And why does one need to pray to an omniscient god anyway, seeing as he already knows what you want.

[Roy]

Having received an answer when I sought one.

Coherence and consistency in religious views of god's nature would help now - I see no reason to accept the existence of god if those promoting one can't even get their story straight - as would the physical evidence that should exist for events such as Noah's flood but doesn't.

The ever predictable response was: God always answers prayer but sometimes the answer is no. In short, no answer that "sincere prayer was reliable".

We'll see.