Over the years I have asked a number of Atheists this question - are you a good man. I never really get an confident yes, the answers are usually qualified. Yes, I'm good but not perfect, or no I'm not that good, or I'm pretty good, but I have a long way to go. So by their own lights they are falling short of their own ideal. But why? It there some kind of moral north star out there that they are moving toward? If this is just a private notion of morality why not just declare yourself morally perfect? If you are comparing yourself to your present cultural norms why would you see these relative considerations as the standard by which your behaviors should be judged? Knowing that they are relative?
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Are You A Good Man....
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Are You A Good Man....
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3sTags: None
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Originally posted by seer View PostOver the years I have asked a number of Atheists this question - are you a good man. I never really get an confident yes, the answers are usually qualified. Yes, I'm good but not perfect, or no I'm not that good, or I'm pretty good, but I have a long way to go. So by their own lights they are falling short of their own ideal. But why? It there some kind of moral north star out there that they are moving toward? If this is just a private notion of morality why not just declare yourself morally perfect? If you are comparing yourself to your present cultural norms why would you see these relative considerations as the standard by which your behaviors should be judged? Knowing that they are relative?
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostInteresting, because these relative considerations are the most honest as to what is good.Last edited by seer; 03-13-2017, 08:33 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOver the years I have asked a number of Atheists this question - are you a good man. I never really get an confident yes, the answers are usually qualified. Yes, I'm good but not perfect, or no I'm not that good, or I'm pretty good, but I have a long way to go. So by their own lights they are falling short of their own ideal. But why? It there some kind of moral north star out there that they are moving toward? If this is just a private notion of morality why not just declare yourself morally perfect? If you are comparing yourself to your present cultural norms why would you see these relative considerations as the standard by which your behaviors should be judged? Knowing that they are relative?
For example, when you ask someone if they're 'good' it is considered impolite in our society to answer in the affirmative (outside of a joke). It appears proud and it would be considered off-putting to most listeners to declare 'Yeah, I'm good'. When declaring oneself to be 'good' it is essentially mandatory to acknowledge that one makes mistakes and has room for improvement regardless of one's actual feelings on the matter. In that regard the atheist's answer is crafted to meet the expectations of societal norms. The dude is being polite.
Originally posted by seer View PostIt there some kind of moral north star out there that they are moving toward? If this is just a private notion of morality why not just declare yourself morally perfect?
The Bible seems to teach that each man has a built in moral compass.
Given that the atheist credits every other built in feature as evolution-breathed it is not much of a stretch to imagine them believing the same of their morality.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhy? I mean if you were a Hitler Youth in 1930s Germany you would have been considered a very upright young man.
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhy? I mean if you were a Hitler Youth in 1930s Germany you would have been considered a very upright young man.
You would have been told, and perhaps convinced, that you were doing the right thing.
I think it is pretty reasonable for the atheist to be unmoved by your claims of possessing a superior moral compass.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostYes, and if you were burning Huguenots with hot coals in 1600s you would have had the full blessings of God according to the Catholic Church.
You would have been told, and perhaps convinced, that you were doing the right thing.
I think it is pretty reasonable for the atheist to be unmoved by your claims of possessing a superior moral compass.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI'm not claiming a superior moral compass, though I do believe that the teachings of Christ are superior - don't you?
We can have that conversation because we're working from the same set of presuppositions.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI'm not aware of any atheist that believes he has a private definition of 'good'. Every one I've ever pressed on the matter has expressed the concept of a social contract. In this way the atheist can have a moral compass that points to that social contract while admitting that he falls short of it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI'm not saying that the atheist only lives by his own lights, I'm asking why he wouldn't. Why would he use the culture's standard when he knows that it is relative, and not take his own standard and declare himself morally perfect? Or if he doesn't live up to his own standard - why not? Why is his personal standard so divorced from what he actually does? Why not change the standard and declare moral victory?
Opposing the prevailing social contract is a good way to end up dead.
It is the same reason why many Christians follows God's standards.
They view God as the prevailing culture and don't want to end up dead (1).
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1: I think that is a twisted view of Christianity.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostAn atheist uses the cultural standard because he likes to drink, eat, and sleep.
Opposing the prevailing social contract is a good way to end up dead.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat may be, but I'm trying to get at the reasoning behind their beliefs. And I'm not sure that most atheists would agree that they only do good for fear of dying.
Most people follow some sort of social contract so they can drink, eat, and sleep in peace.
Think about what motivates many of your action.
The speed limit being set at 70 isn't 'God's Law' and yet your presumably follow it.
You probably aren't doing it for any greater good but rather to avoid a ticket.
An atheist who declares 'I AM MY OWN LAW' and travels down the highway at 90 is going to be making his life very, very difficult.
The fact is, Christian and Atheist alike, that most of what we do is out of these sorts of considerations.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by seer View PostI'm not saying that the atheist only lives by his own lights, I'm asking why he wouldn't. Why would he use the culture's standard when he knows that it is relative, and not take his own standard and declare himself morally perfect? Or if he doesn't live up to his own standard - why not? Why is his personal standard so divorced from what he actually does? Why not change the standard and declare moral victory?
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostAn atheist who declares 'I AM MY OWN LAW' and travels down the highway at 90 is going to be making his life very, very difficult.
The fact is, Christian and Atheist alike, that most of what we do is out of these sorts of considerations.Last edited by seer; 03-13-2017, 10:31 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOver the years I have asked a number of Atheists this question - are you a good man. I never really get an confident yes, the answers are usually qualified. Yes, I'm good but not perfect, or no I'm not that good, or I'm pretty good, but I have a long way to go. So by their own lights they are falling short of their own ideal. But why?
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