Originally posted by JimL
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Are You A Good Man....
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Oh stop, we have been through this before. Most of these different views have to do with people who reject the plain meaning of the texts - it is not about 'interpretation' but the actual denial of what the text says. Second, even if our interpretations are off, it doesn't mean that there isn't a right answer or understanding.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut why let the relative cultural mores define these things for us?
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The mere existence of a particular interpretation does not validate its truthfulnessThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by seer View PostOh stop, we have been through this before. Most of these different views have to do with people who reject the plain meaning of the texts - it is not about 'interpretation' but the actual denial of what the text says. Second, even if our interpretations are off, it doesn't mean that there isn't a right answer or understanding.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostSo you're right and the Christians that disagree with you are wrong. Exactly! This is what I'm saying. I repeat: "There can be no way to resolve religious conflicts about moral issues when members of competing denominations hold absolute beliefs which are mutually exclusive". Wars have been fought over such disagreements.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostAgain, nonsense. If they hold to Scripture at face value, we will be on the same page- if they deny scripture (which some do) there is no common ground.
In any case, my point still stands - even if we we all get it wrong, there would still be a right moral answer.Last edited by Tassman; 03-19-2017, 10:27 PM.
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Originally posted by seer View PostReally, then how do you define a man as good?
You defined yourself as good, and how do you define a society as good? Without ending up in the same circle as you accuse me of? And "common sense" is not a definition of good.Last edited by JimL; 03-19-2017, 10:21 PM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI would define a good man, morally speaking, as a one who does unto others as he would have them do unto him. I know, why is that good right? And we've been over this before seer. It is morally "good" because it is in the mutual interest of human beings living together in society, ergo of humanity, to give a hoot about each others welfare. So how would I define "good," I would say that good is that which is ultimately in the best interests of both the giver and the beneficiary of an action.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI would define a good man, morally speaking, as a one who does unto others as he would have them do unto him. I know, why is that good right? And we've been over this before seer. It is morally "good" because it is in the mutual interest of human beings living together in society, ergo of humanity, to give a hoot about each others welfare. So how would I define "good," I would say that good is that which is ultimately in the best interests of both the giver and the beneficiary of an action.
No, not really, in defining myself as good, I believe I said "relatively speaking." Good isn't really something that one is, its something that one does, and the one who is best at doing the right thing, is the one we call good. But sometimes that same person does the wrong thing, what you would call a sin, so it isn't the man himself who is either good or bad, it is his actions that are either good or bad. And how I define right and wrong, or good and bad I just explained above. Your turn!Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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But you forget the other Golden Rule that has been just as common to humanity - "He with the most gold, rules!"Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by tassman View Postso other christians must do it yourThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut you forget the other Golden Rule that has been just as common to humanity - "He with the most gold, rules!"
But, cynicism aside, the "do unto others" Golden Rule has been a universal aspiration throughout human history, because it embodies the natural instincts for reciprocal altruism essential for the building more cooperative groups. And, for a social species such as us, the benefits of being part of an altruistic group greatly outweigh the benefits of individualism.
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Originally posted by seer View PostSee Jim moral questions have to stop somewhere, someone has to define what is right. Either the individual, the society or God. You just expressed your opinion, (which both I and the New Testament generally agree with) but that may not be the opinion of the Maoist or Stalinist or the Hutu - where raw power and dominance is the goal. And if we take God out of the picture we are left with relative moral considerations, nothing more.Yes, and a 19 year old Hitler Youth in 1939 would have considered himself a very moral young man, as would his culture. If it is all relative then it is ultimately meaningless.
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