Are You A Good Man....

[stfoskey15]

No, you are missing my point. So what if the pain of the indentured servant is greater? As long as it makes the owners life better and more pleasurable?

That's not how utilitarianism works.

[Tassman]

And you still haven't offered a logical response. Why do you rail against the religious tendencies that nature determined? Why do you dislike nature so much?

is logically coherent and the only viable alternative. The degree to which our decision-making processes affect reality is unknown and much debated between hard determinists and compatabilists. Religion is only of concern inasmuch as it promotes survival...as per the tribal era, or is detrimental...as per modern multi-cultural societies.

[Kbertsche]

is logically coherent and the only viable alternative. The degree to which our decision-making processes affect reality is unknown and much debated between hard determinists and compatabilists. Religion is only of concern inasmuch as it promotes survival...as per the tribal era, or is detrimental...as per modern multi-cultural societies.

If you are REALLY convinced of determinism, why do you rail against people of faith? Why don't you just accept that they are destined to believe in God, and leave them alone?

I don't think you REALLY believe in determinism!

[Tassman]

If you are REALLY convinced of determinism, why do you rail against people of faith? Why don't you just accept that they are destined to believe in God, and leave them alone?

I don't think you REALLY believe in determinism!

Determinism is not a belief system. It's is the logically-based position that every event, decision and action is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences. If you believe that events, decisions and actions can arise in a vacuum and override our past experiences and subconscious then please explain how this can occur.

[Doug Shaver]

then: would you reasonably wonder if the next person who you talked to whom (a), (b) and (c) applied to, might also have (d), (e), and (f) be applicable?

I might wonder about that. I would not assume an affirmative conclusion.

[Doug Shaver]

But given the statistics it is reasonable to assume that, in many cases, religious belief plays a part in the attitude of religious people towards abortion.

You seem to have created the impression that, as far as you're concerned, whatever is true in many cases must be true in every case that you encounter. You seem to think that if anyone says "I'm one of the exceptions," they're lying.

[Doug Shaver]

Almost every single last Christian in the long history of this forum has identified as pro-life, and it's not coincidence.

This is why most nontheists that have come to this forum discuss the topic of abortion once.

[Tassman]

You seem to have created the impression that, as far as you're concerned, whatever is true in many cases must be true in every case that you encounter. You seem to think that if anyone says "I'm one of the exceptions," they're lying.

[seer]

That's not how utilitarianism works.

Right stfoskey, I agree that is not how utilitarianism works. But why should anyone accept that theory of ethics, especially if it interferes with ones personal pleasure, power or wealth?

[Doug Shaver]

I was speaking generally, based upon the statistics, that the majority of those who are pro-life are religious.

You didn't stop with that. You also said that it was therefore reasonable to assume that they were pro-life for religious reasons.

[Tassman]

You didn't stop with that. You also said that it was therefore reasonable to assume that they were pro-life for religious reasons.

[Sea of red]

You didn't stop with that. You also said that it was therefore reasonable to assume that they were pro-life for religious reasons.

It's really not that big of a leap to say so.

Most people that are pro-life are so because of religious reasons.

[Sea of red]

I don't know what on Earth you're talking about with Aristotle, or what that has to do with abortion.

BTW: I made that post over a month ago. Long nap?

[seer]

Determinism is not a belief system. It's is the logically-based position that every event, decision and action is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences. If you believe that events, decisions and actions can arise in a vacuum and override our past experiences and subconscious then please explain how this can occur.

Then religious people are determined to be that way, ISIS is determined to do what they do by antecedent conditions. So again, why rail against what nature has determined? Why do you dislike nature so much? Are you just as upset when the big fish eats the little fish?

[stfoskey15]

Right stfoskey, I agree that is not how utilitarianism works. But why should anyone accept that theory of ethics, especially if it interferes with ones personal pleasure, power or wealth?

That's a good question. This is where Tassman's arguments about why people have ethics in the first place come in. I'm feeling like we're going in circles, and this discussion is tiring me out, but if you're interested in reading more, I'd recommend reading Moral Tribes by Joshua Greene. That's where most of my opinions on the issue come from.