Can The Atheist Do Good?

[Roy]

I like how you slipped a little backhand into that one.
I'll be keeping an eye on you, 'Roy'.

I'll try not to disappoint.

It does seem unnecessary to castigate the ancients though, when there are still people around to day who do worse than the ancients even with the data we have available now.

[JimL]

Not at all. Again, God is so powerful, so mighty, that his good will can be accomplished without overtaking another person's will. In fact, I imagine that most of God's will is done despite people's own willful acts and motivations. That you can't conceive of such a thing without framing it as "pulling strings" simply demonstrates your lack of consideration.

And once again, that doesn't answer the question posed by seer. Whether or not Gods will can be accomplished without being the cause of human actions is irrelevant. The question has nothing to do with God, the question was: Can an atheist, ever do good? What a god might do with that to accomplish his own good will is irrelevant? In order to answer that question, all one need do is to define good and then ask yourself if both athiests and believers do it.

[Roy]

And once again, that doesn't answer the question posed by seer. Whether or not Gods will can be accomplished without being the cause of human actions is irrelevant. The question has nothing to do with God, the question was: Can an atheist, ever do good?

The actual question was: Can an atheist ever do good, given [some premises involving God]?

The question had quite a lot to do with 'God'.

[Adrift]

the question was: Can an atheist, ever do good?

That wasn't the question I was answering. I was specifically answering the question in post #43,

"I wonder, if it is not done for the glory of God is it really good?"

[Sparko]

Here is the Christian paradox as I see it:

A Christian can do good and be righteous.
A Christian can do evil and be righteous.

An atheist can do good and cannot be righteous.
An atheist can do evil and cannot be righteous.

Again, just spit-ballin'.

To be fair, in both cased neither is righteous. Only Jesus is righteous. But we get to ride on his ticket.

[Sparko]

Is it fundamentally dishonest to press buttons in an elevator having faith you'll reach the second floor? Oh ... wait ....

In europe the firstfloor is actually what we call the second floor anyway. They start with Ground, first floor, second, third. etc.

Those silly Europeans. Can't count worth a darn.

[Sparko]

Second, saving the baby is a natural urge to perpetuation of the species. It is common among higher primates for members to give their lives for the benefit of the group. .

Ah so then abortion would be "evil" naturalistically speaking, since it does the opposite.

[Sparko]

I'll try not to disappoint.

It does seem unnecessary to castigate the ancients though, when there are still people around to day who do worse than the ancients even with the data we have available now.

JimL amened your post.

Jim, he was talking about people like you.

[Roy]

In europe the firstfloor is actually what we call the second floor anyway. They start with Ground, first floor, second, third. etc.

Those silly Europeans. Can't count worth a darn.

C++ standard.

[guacamole]

The overwhelming majority of the judgement narratives of the OT seem to indicate that the nations judged by God were destroyed due to wickedness--presumably then, heathen and atheists have the same moral agency that Christians and Jews have--unless OP wants to exclude the Jews here too, which is perilous. At any rate, were they judged for their wickedness, they also had the ability to do good, hence the judgement. So yes, nonbelievers (atheists) can do good.

[JimL]

That wasn't the question I was answering. I was specifically answering the question in post #43,

"I wonder, if it is not done for the glory of God is it really good?"

Well the whole question is rather silly if you ask me. Even if what is good were dependent upon god, the act itself of doing good is not dependent on god, the act, whether good or bad, is dependent upon the actor, ergo the atheist, regardless of his non belief, is not only just as capable of doing good as is the believer, but in my opinion their goodness is even more to be honored since they are not under authority, or coersion of any kind, to do good.

[Adrift]

Well the whole question is rather silly if you ask me. Even if what is good were dependent upon god, the act itself of doing good is not dependent on god, the act, whether good or bad, is dependent upon the actor, ergo the atheist, regardless of his non belief, is not only just as capable of doing good as is the believer, but in my opinion their goodness is even more to be honored since they are not under authority, or coersion of any kind, to do good.

Is it your opinion that Christians only do good because they are under authority or coercion to do so?

[Sparko]

Well the whole question is rather silly if you ask me. Even if what is good were dependent upon god, the act itself of doing good is not dependent on god, the act, whether good or bad, is dependent upon the actor, ergo the atheist, regardless of his non belief, is not only just as capable of doing good as is the believer, but in my opinion their goodness is even more to be honored since they are not under authority, or coersion of any kind, to do good.

The deed could be good, but the motivation could be bad. If you save a child from a fire, but the only reason you did it was to get on the news, then you were being selfish and uncaring even though your bad action did something good. So you didn't actually "do good" - you did something bad that ended up being good despite your intentions.

[JimL]

The deed could be good, but the motivation could be bad. If you save a child from a fire, but the only reason you did it was to get on the news, then you were being selfish and uncaring even though your bad action did something good. So you didn't actually "do good" - you did something bad that ended up being good despite your intentions.

Sure, but the motivation doesn't need be for the glory of god in order for the motivation to be good. The motivation could simply be the atheists genuine concern for the life of child. Ones motivation and intention may matter concerning the categorizing of their actions, but belief in a God doesn't.

[JimL]

Is it your opinion that Christians only do good because they are under authority or coercion to do so?

Well, now you are changing the subject, but no, not necessarily, though I do believe that that is one of the main reasons for the establishment of religions, i.e. to keep the otherwise wicked amongst us in line. Many Christians here have said that absent their belief in God they couldn't be good.