Originally posted by seer
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Guacamole's off the cuff reactions to the God Delusion
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNever said, ALL Christians persecuted Jews, but yes Christians persecucted Jews, and were involved in ethnic cleansing. Read Martin Luther.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostYou said it was for two thousand years - that was a lie. And your own prophet said that their persecution (torment) was basically a judgement from God. So Luther was only doing the will of God. You believe your prophet don't you?
Yes, it is for 2000 years since Constantine. Of course, I do not believe Martin Luther represented the will of God, but it did clearly represent the view of many if not most European Christians, and his recommendations concerning Jews were carried out. The passion plays of Europe, unfounded blood-libel myths, and the description of Jews as 'Christ killers' represent clear motivations to persecute, and ethnically cleanse Jews from Europe.
The target of the Crusades also included Jews.
Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-12-2017, 08:36 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe quote never said the torment was persecution. In the Baha'i writings it is specific and clear; Judgement from God is not in this life. You and others are misrepresenting a selective quote for your own agenda.
Yes, it is for 2000 years since Constantine. Of course, I do not believe Martin Luther represented the will of God, but it did clearly represent the view of many if not most European Christians, and his recommendations concerning Jews were carried out. The passion plays of Europe, unfounded blood-libel myths, and the description of Jews as 'Christ killers' represent clear motivations to persecute, and ethnically cleanse Jews from Europe.
Thus hath (HAS) God laid hold of them for their sins, hath (HAS)extinguished in them the spirit of faith, and tormented them with the flames of the nethermost fire. And this for no other reason except that Israel refused to apprehend the meaning of such words as have been revealed in the Bible concerning the signs of the coming Revelation.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostAgain you are lying, Constantine did not live two thousand years ago and what exactly did he do to the Jews, and you are lying about the quote. God HAS, God HAS - past tense, it is not a future judgement and you know it and you are deceiving again.
God's judgement remains in spiritual not physical sense, and there is not temporal consideration, because 'has' here denotes past, present and future, and the eternal nature of God's spiritual judgement. Selective citations to justify your agenda does not work.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostOK 1800 years, so what?!?!!? It does not change history. Still no response concerning the facts of history. Again . . . read Martin Luther, and the facts of history. You cannot rewrite history.
God's judgement remains in spiritual not physical sense, and there is not temporal consideration, because 'has' here denotes past, present and future, and the eternal nature of God's spiritual judgement. Selective citations to justify your agenda does not work.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostGod's judgement remains in spiritual not physical sense, and there is not temporal consideration, because 'has' here denotes past, present and future, and the eternal nature of God's spiritual judgement. Selective citations to justify your agenda does not work.
Here he goes on and explains how WWII was caused by God's righteous anger towards those who did not accept his Messengers:
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostNo, it's definitely physical in the Baha'i faith. So Shoghi Effendi in his Warning to All Nations if they "persecute the appointed Channels and Embodiments of Divine authority and power":
Here he goes on and explains how WWII was caused by God's righteous anger towards those who did not accept his Messengers:
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostConstantine did not live 1,800 years ago! And what did he do to Jews? The fact is what you are speaking of did not really start until the Middle ages, it wasn't happening for two thousand years."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThat's not quite true. There was certainly Christian persecution of Jews prior to the Middle Ages. For example, in the late 300's CE, there were several riots and acts of violence targeting the Jews in and around Alexandria. Quite famously, St. Cyril-- bishop of Alexandria-- acknowledged that Christians had gravely wronged these Jewish people, but declared that it would be immoral to require those Christians to compensate the Jews.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThat's not quite true. There was certainly Christian persecution of Jews prior to the Middle Ages. For example, in the late 300's CE, there were several riots and acts of violence targeting the Jews in and around Alexandria. Quite famously, St. Cyril-- bishop of Alexandria-- acknowledged that Christians had gravely wronged these Jewish people, but declared that it would be immoral to require those Christians to compensate the Jews.
Theodoret also mentions similar persecution by a mixed Pagan and Jewish assembly against Christians around this time,
The persecution and pogroms against the Jews absolutely should never have happened, and I severely question the faith of those who would harm and murder others in the name of Jesus, but at this early of a point, the story is a bit more complicated than how you put it I think.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostConstantine did not live 1,800 years ago! And what did he do to Jews? The fact is what you are speaking of did not really start until the Middle ages, it wasn't happening for two thousand years.
So God is still tormenting them, past present and future.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostEh, there's a little more to the story than that. Tension between Pagans, Jews, and Christians were coming to a boil for some time before that. The violence against the Jews reported by Cyril was preceded by the report offered by Athanasius of the attack against the Christian congregation by Jews and pagans led by the Prefect Philagrius.
The persecution and pogroms against the Jews absolutely should never have happened, and I severely question the faith of those who would harm and murder others in the name of Jesus, but at this early of a point, the story is a bit more complicated than how you put it I think."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
That is up to God's judgement not mine.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, 04-22-2024, 06:28 PM
|
17 responses
104 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
04-23-2024, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 04-17-2024, 08:31 AM
|
70 responses
405 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 04-26-2024, 05:47 AM | ||
Started by whag, 04-09-2024, 01:04 PM
|
317 responses
1,411 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
Today, 07:19 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 02-04-2024, 05:06 AM
|
228 responses
1,122 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
Today, 08:04 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 01-18-2024, 01:35 PM
|
49 responses
370 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
05-15-2024, 02:53 PM
|
Comment