"Resplendent glory" is the commentator's flowery description of the Biblical record - Where does Paul say "in all his resplendent glory?"
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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A question for atheists . . .
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1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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How do you know? You don't want it to be an encounter with the physical Jesus, but nothing in the text precludes this. It is a viable possibility.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostAnd, it was of the same order as the encounters of those listed in the Little Creed of 1 Cor 15. 3-8
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Paul had a vision. How does that support your argument that Christ was not raised from death to life in the conventional sense?
So far -
optanomai shows that the person seeing something is somewhat awestruck by the sight, and no more than that.
The record shows that Paul said that Christ, rose from out of death (egeiro) - which, when associated with illness means - "to recover," from death.
The record further shows that Paul said he was not only rose again (anistemi), but also "returned to life." (anazao) Romans 14:9 (anistemi - the same word that was said of Lazarus when he was raised from death).
Even by your own claims, Paul saw Christ (albeit in a vision), which he assessed as equal to seeing Christ.
So - what is your claim (regarding the Biblical claim) that Christ was not raised to life (in the conventional sense) based on?1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Kbertsche View PostHow do you know? You don't want it to be an encounter with the physical Jesus, but nothing in the text precludes this. It is a viable possibility.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNothing in the text precludes this, but a physical, fleshly resurrection would not be the obvious understanding of the text if not being viewed through the lens of the decades later gospels and late pseudepigraphic epistles, which were almost certainly corrupted by embellishments. .
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostUh, Acts was almost certainly written as a continuation of the Gospel of Luke. It's by all intents and purposes part of the same work. Luke's gospel, which was written earlier than Acts clearly teaches a bodily, fleshly resurrection of Jesus. The writer of Acts clearly believed in the physical resurrection of Jesus, and did not have the slightest problem with introducing Paul's encounter with the Lord on the road to Damascus, which indicates that he did not think that it posed any sort of problem for a belief in a physical resurrection.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNothing in the text precludes this, but a physical, fleshly resurrection would not be the obvious understanding of the text if not being viewed through the lens of the decades later gospels and late pseudepigraphic epistles, which were almost certainly corrupted by embellishments. .1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostOn the contrary - whoever would expect "Christ lives" to mean "Christ's body is still mouldering in the grave"? Whoever would expect "Christ recovered from death" to mean "Christ's body didn't recover from death"? And Paul claimed both - Christ lives ... Christ recovered from the dead.
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That Paul believed that Christ was risen in the flesh is established on the basis of Paul's testimony - even disregarding the testimony of the gospels. The circumstances in which Paul saw Christ, and the circumstances under which others saw him are not relevant to the matter of Christ being risen in the flesh. However - when the gospel accounts and the Acts accounts are considered, the record shows that Christ appeared in the flesh to (at the least) most of the others.
Not one, but two, statements made by Paul declare that the record of Christ's crucifixion was available, in writing, before he wrote to his audience. That Paul believed authoritative accounts of Christ's crucifixion to be in existence during his life-time is established.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostThat Paul believed that Christ was risen in the flesh is established on the basis of Paul's testimony - even disregarding the testimony of the gospels.
The circumstances in which Paul saw Christ, and the circumstances under which others saw him are not relevant to the matter of Christ being risen in the flesh.
However - when the gospel accounts and the Acts accounts are considered, the record shows that Christ appeared in the flesh to (at the least) most of the others.
Not one, but two, statements made by Paul declare that the record of Christ's crucifixion was available, in writing, before he wrote to his audience. That Paul believed authoritative accounts of Christ's crucifixion to be in existence during his life-time is established.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhat testimony?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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