Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

[Machinist]

I have never interpreted the story of Jesus as Him being politically or socially progressive. There were definitely implications (possibly far reaching) into the realms of politics and society, but I don't see that that was His focus or intent.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is God's. It's quite clear to me that He was promoting a Kingdom not of this world.

[Cow Poke]

The Baptist and Jesus both were for an end to the greed, corruption, dishonesty and mammon of the Priesthood and Temple scams. Now that he mentioned often.

Yeah, and maybe you don't realize that socialism is RAMPANT with greed, corruption, dishonesty.....

I'm against those things, too, but that doesn't make me a socialist.

[eider]

Are you suggesting that ANY of those verses supports the notion that Jesus was a progressive or socialist?

I was asked to write about The Baptist! (Rogue and Sparko)
I wrote about the Baptist.

[Cow Poke]

The word doesn't exist in the gospels of Mark and Matthew.
And only once in the gospel of John.
Luke mentioned the word many times, but that was in different times.

The Baptist and Jesus both were for an end to the greed, corruption, dishonesty and mammon of the Priesthood and Temple scams. Now that he mentioned often.

OK, let's not play games -- WHAT word does not exist? Because the word "Trinity" doesn't exist in the gospels - or anywhere else in the Bible - but I'm certainly a Trinitarian!

[eider]

The "real mission" was for Jesus to bring Salvation to man. That's the "prime objective", if you will.

The word doesn't exist in the gospels of Mark and Matthew.
And only once in the gospel of John.
Luke mentioned the word many times, but that was in different times.

The Baptist and Jesus both were for an end to the greed, corruption, dishonesty and mammon of the Priesthood and Temple scams. Now that he mentioned often.

[Cow Poke]

The Baptist.............. some verses........

Mark {1:6} And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Matthew {3:5} Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
(The Temple income must have fallen away, and the local people's high fees for services)

John {1:40} One of the two which heard John [speak,] and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.

John {1:28} These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

Luke {3:10} And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Luke {3:12} Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? {3:13} And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

Matthew {3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John {3:22} After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John {3:23} And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. {3:24} For John was not yet cast into prison.

Matthew {4:12} Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee

Are you suggesting that ANY of those verses supports the notion that Jesus was a progressive or socialist?

[eider]

The Baptist.............. some verses........

Mark {1:6} And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Matthew {3:5} Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
(The Temple income must have fallen away, and the local people's high fees for services)

John {1:40} One of the two which heard John [speak,] and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.

John {1:28} These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

Luke {3:10} And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Luke {3:12} Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? {3:13} And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

Matthew {3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John {3:22} After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John {3:23} And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. {3:24} For John was not yet cast into prison.

Matthew {4:12} Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee

[eider]

The concept of progressive socialism did not exist in the ancient world. It should be remembered that certain inherent human expressions of philanthropy have existed throughout recorded history. Indeed the earliest evidence for assessing a person's life and how they have lived it is to be found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead where the first Declaration of Innocence made to Osiris includes statements as to the benevolence and humanitarianism of the deceased during their lifetime.

Hi HA. Progressive Socialist? Yes.
Jesus redacted laws and customs, progressing away from outdated ways.
Jesus definitely supported the Old Testament poor laws by actually carrying some out.
Jesus definitely spoke out against the hoarding of wealth, greed and corrupt practices and his actions showed all this clearly.

So..... Progressive, and Socialist. His mission focused upon everybody together. Social.

[Cow Poke]

Not true, Sparko
Not true.....

This thread is all about what the real mission was imo. The words and actions of both Jesus and Baptist speak for themselves.

The "real mission" was for Jesus to bring Salvation to man. That's the "prime objective", if you will.

[eider]

Oh you are welcome to troll, I just wanted to point it out. Or like I said, maybe ignorant.

OK. I will carry on with this as far as the verses will go.

You seem to be advocating some odd form of Chrono-snobbery, where you are imputing modern ideas upon the actions of people in history. You might as well try to claim Jesus was a Democrat or a Republican as a "Progressive Socialist"

The ideas were theirs, as shown by actions and words.

And is there a reason why you call John the baptist, "the Baptist?" Did you forget his name?

The Baptist, or The Immerser........ His name? I've never seen it writ large..... I think it is Yohan BenZacharius or something similar. 'Ben' if his Dad was a Levite, which he was.

[Cow Poke]

Against groups falsely declaring allegiance, true enough. But where do we find him laying down rules for societies at large?

Even with the rich young man to whom he said "one thing you lack," there is a highly specific "you" as the target - nothing shows that he was laying down a general principle, nor did he say to Zaccheus that "giving half of my possessions to the poor" wasn't good enough.

Yet this is a portion of scripture regularly yanked out of context to justify communism.

[Cow Poke]

And is there a reason why you call John the baptist, "the Baptist?" Did you forget his name?

I've been noticing that, too --- I have never come across ANYBODY else referring to John simply as "the Baptist". :shug:

[Sparko]

Quote the Baptist?
For sure I can, and have added a few verses already. The Baptist upset a lot of important folks and there is no doubt imo that he was considered to be a major troll of or to the Temple and priesthood. I'm on a mobile and need to be on my laptop to post further about him.

I thought that this would be the place to really debate beliefs, any beliefs, and if any members want only debates which fit with their ideas then surely is not a proper apologetics section?

What do you want? You're the guvnor, so just tell me if a certain section of the membership should not be exposed to alternative viewpoints based upon the gospels?

Oh you are welcome to troll, I just wanted to point it out. Or like I said, maybe ignorant.

You seem to be advocating some odd form of Chrono-snobbery, where you are imputing modern ideas upon the actions of people in history. You might as well try to claim Jesus was a Democrat or a Republican as a "Progressive Socialist"

And is there a reason why you call John the baptist, "the Baptist?" Did you forget his name?

[tabibito]

Hello Tabibito.
Near as I can tell, Jesus acted against a wicked, corrupt, greedy, hypocritical Priesthood. Look at what he said and did such as in the Temple.

Against groups falsely declaring allegiance, true enough. But where do we find him laying down rules for societies at large?

Even with the rich young man to whom he said "one thing you lack," there is a highly specific "you" as the target - nothing shows that he was laying down a general principle, nor did he say to Zaccheus that "giving half of my possessions to the poor" wasn't good enough.

[eider]

Near as I can tell, Jesus laid out rules of conduct, laws if you will, for people who choose God. I don't see him attempting to impose any rules on people outside that group.

eider - So perhaps you would care to elucidate; is it "peace on earth and goodwill to all men," or "peace on earth to all men of good-will."?

Hello Tabibito.
Near as I can tell, Jesus acted against a wicked, corrupt, greedy, hypocritical Priesthood. Look at what he said and did such as in the Temple.