Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

[Cow Poke]

I've heard it before, most memorably (for me at least) in the Petra song "What's In A Name?" which includes the line "The Baptist called Him Lamb of God who takes away our sins".

And all this time I thought this was about me.

[Mountain Man]

I've been noticing that, too --- I have never come across ANYBODY else referring to John simply as "the Baptist". :shug:

I've heard it before, most memorably (for me at least) in the Petra song "What's In A Name?" which includes the line "The Baptist called Him Lamb of God who takes away our sins".

[Cow Poke]

I just hope you've learned that Galilee was not full of Romans....

Jerusalem, Judea.... that's where a lot of the action was.

[Cow Poke]

We don't take each other too seriously, it seems.

And that's OK!

[eider]

OK, I like you - you're weird, and a bit of a , I think, but you seem like a good guy.

I'm just not taking you seriously on this anymore. I think you're having a little too much fun.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Carry on!

We don't take each other too seriously, it seems.

[eider]

This.^

He avoided earthly political controversies.

What?
Have you read what the Baptist said about the Temple and Priesthood? And what he was doing?
Have you read about What Jesus and his disciples did in the Temple, and the things he said?

He was slap bang central in the middle of words and actions against a corrupted, greedy, hypocritical leadership.

[NorrinRadd]

He was essentially saying to just give the government what they want instead of making a fuss about it. That is not a ringing endorsement.

This.^

He avoided earthly political controversies.

[eider]

By this point, dear Hypoxia_Atrocity, I have pretty well determined our dear friend is not really being serious, so I was going off script.

Y'all have fun.

I just hope you've learned that Galilee was not full of Romans.
It was full of Jewish authorities and any forces...... under Antipas who had real issues with any Roman interference.
Antipas sent out to bring the Baptist in because the Baptist was within Antipas's borders, Perea.
Otherwise (on the West Bank) it would have been Romans who went out for him.

[eider]

No it wouldn't. The collection of the direct tax passed from the Herodian officials to the procurator and his staff. The collection of the indirect taxes was farmed to the despised "publicans" mentioned in the Gospels. These were Jewish tax-farmers who purchased the tax-collecting concessions.

Bearing in mind that at this period in Judaea there was, a comparatively small auxiliary army presence. Galilee had its own army modelled on Roman lines - hence the account in Matthew concerning the centurion in Capernaum. The character would not have been a Roman centurion.

CP probably thinks that the Galilee was full of Romans.
That 'Roman Centurion' was (probably) either retired or a senior Jewish official.

[eider]

Mark 7.31.

Randel Helms writes : "Anyone approaching Jerusalem from Jericho would come first to Bethany and then Bethphage, not the reverse.

Adam Winn writes ......... various issues with the author's apparent lack of knowledge of the region.

HA....! You've got your ideas the wrong way round.
I've already told you that the author of Mark didn't live around, didn't have intimate knowledge of and didn't often travel to ------- Judea!
By his writing he knew about Galilee and the North.

So Helms and Winn were right about the single journey South...... Big Deal!
They really did waste their ink, HA.

[eider]

I can understand what you have written but you do not seem to comprehend that the gospels should not be regarded as overly accurate historical records. Their internal narratives cannot be assumed to be entirely as they are presented. These texts were to preach and teach. They were not intended to give a dispassionate historical [as we understand the term] account of events.

HA, you do not seem to comprehend that I think G-Mark was a fairly accurate account of that year (with Christian fiddlings).
Matthew and Luke wrote interesting accounts with quite a lot of foundation and detail within them.

[eider]

Assuming that the location of Bethphage has been correctly identified, coming to Bethphage from the north (necessary if Bethphage is the first to be reached) would place Jerusalem on the right, and Bethany on the left - that is, to get to Bethany on the way to Jerusalem, the traveller would have to detour. Approaching from the east, the traveller would reach Bethany first. Jericho is to the north and east of Bethany, so it would depend on whether the traveller first went south from Jericho and then turned west (reach Bethany first), or west from Jericho and turned south (reach Bethphage first.)

But it does not seem that Mark intended to provide an itinerary. What does a first century reader do with a map? How would a first century writer present the place names in accord with a map? Look at that map as it would have been presented in the first century - the first century writer would have read the map from top to bottom, as we would in like circumstances - but - the first century map had east at the top, not north. Maps were oriented (note the significance of that word) for the rising sun until the compass became a thing. Reading in first century map order, which town comes first?

In the whole gospel of Mark Jesus and disciples only undertook that journey once, that year.
Hence why they spent the day 'looking around' on Palm Sunday...... It was all still an amazing spectacle of a place for them.
Hence any errors in Mark's description....... if any.

[eider]

Gee I can play semantics too. Jesus took 2 fish and multiplied them. That's PROFIT! Jesus was a Capitalist! That is basically how you are arguing Jesus was "progressive" and a "socialist" -- by playing semantic games.

No Sparko......... no semantics, simply reading what is there.
And of course, feeding thousands of people for nothing can't fit your very poor analogy, trying to show the reverse of my posts.
In fact you're going to have to struggle somewhat to stray from my selection of verses throughout this thread, showing that Jesus was for Social Progress (of course Jesus was).

Sometime, you must explain how strong Conservative values fit with 'what Jesus said and did'.

[tabibito]

"Anyone approaching Jerusalem from Jericho would come first to Bethany and then Bethphage, not the reverse.

Assuming that the location of Bethphage has been correctly identified, coming to Bethphage from the north (necessary if Bethphage is the first to be reached) would place Jerusalem on the right, and Bethany on the left - that is, to get to Bethany on the way to Jerusalem, the traveller would have to detour. Approaching from the east, the traveller would reach Bethany first. Jericho is to the north and east of Bethany, so it would depend on whether the traveller first went south from Jericho and then turned west (reach Bethany first), or west from Jericho and turned south (reach Bethphage first.)


Bethany - Bethphage.jpg

But it does not seem that Mark intended to provide an itinerary. What does a first century reader do with a map? How would a first century writer present the place names in accord with a map? Look at that map as it would have been presented in the first century - the first century writer would have read the map from top to bottom, as we would in like circumstances - but - the first century map had east at the top, not north. Maps were oriented (note the significance of that word) for the rising sun until the compass became a thing. Reading in first century map order, which town comes first?

Bethany - Bethphage Oriented.jpg

[Cow Poke]

No it wouldn't. The collection of the direct tax ...

By this point, dear Hypoxia_Atrocity, I have pretty well determined our dear friend is not really being serious, so I was going off script.

Y'all have fun.