The Argument From Reason...

[Tassman]

That again is nonsense. The act happened, in real time, whether I could prove it to anyone else. If three other people witnessed it their view is still subjective to them. Whether just me, or others, witnessed the act make no difference concerning whether the act happened or not. The act itself is independent of verification, or lack thereof.

Indeed. It is historically verifiable. But your argument goes further. You claim that a purely subjective experience is “as true as any verifiable" scientific discovery”. It is NOT.

By personal experience, just as you do.

But without verification there is no means of determining the “truth” of your personal subjective experience compared to that of another’s, whose subjective experience conflicts with yours.

[seer]

If your morning tea is verified by others then it is an objective historical fact not an independent “subjective truth”, separate from the physical, material brain.

That again is nonsense. The act happened, in real time, whether I could prove it to anyone else. If three other people witnessed it their view is still subjective to them. Whether just me, or others, witnessed the act make no difference concerning whether the act happened or not. The act itself is independent of verification, or lack thereof.

So, how do you determine the “truth” – by ‘feelings’ alone?

By personal experience, just as you do.

[Tassman]

That is just stupid Tass, it is not only true for me it is a fact, a historical fact if you will.

If your morning tea is verified by others then it is an objective historical fact not an independent “subjective truth”, separate from the physical, material brain.

And having the ability to prove it to anyone else is immaterial to the truth of the matter. Many of our encounters in life can not be 'substantiated by evidence' but that does not make then less real or true.

So, how do you determine the “truth” – by ‘feelings’ alone?

[seer]

You appear to have confirmed my underlying suspicion.

Is your subconscious deluding you again?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And? I'm a Christian for goodness sake and that is an Apologetic board...

You appear to have confirmed my underlying suspicion.

[seer]

You should know by now that the only person entitled to have preconceived religious beliefs is H_A.

I forgot - mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa....

[tabibito]

And? I'm a Christian for goodness sake and that is an Apologetic board...

You should know by now that the only person entitled to have preconceived religious beliefs is H_A.

[seer]

Your attempts to use philosophy, logic, reason, concepts of reality to support your own preconceived theological beliefs.

And? I'm a Christian for goodness sake and that is an Apologetic board...

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Which is?

Your attempts to use philosophy, logic, reason, concepts of reality to support your own preconceived theological beliefs.

[seer]

I am commenting on what appears to be an underlying theme of many of your threads.

Which is?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

But you bring up things that have nothing to do with what I said. Why do you do that?

I am commenting on what appears to be an underlying theme of many of your threads.

[seer]

I made some points that is all. You are not obliged to continue to address them.

But you bring up things that have nothing to do with what I said. Why do you do that?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Good grief! I suspect that in your unconscious mind you are a complete idiot...



But that has nothing to do with the point I was making!

I made some points that is all. You are not obliged to continue to address them.

[seer]

As you cannot access your unconscious you cannot actually know that, can you?

Good grief! I suspect that in your unconscious mind you are a complete idiot...

I am simply pointing out that a belief in post-mortem judgements predate Christianity. Hence the fear of death and what happens afterwards are very old considerations in human societies.

But that has nothing to do with the point I was making!

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

We are all individuals HA, I was converted at 37 years old, 30 years ago - and fear of death played no part in that conversion.

As you cannot access your unconscious you cannot actually know that, can you?

What the heck does that have to do with what I said?

I am simply pointing out that a belief in post-mortem judgements predate Christianity. Hence the fear of death and what happens afterwards are very old considerations in human societies.