I have been accused of misrepresenting Christianity by proposing the interpretation that the Trinity is the heresy of polytheism (Tritheism). To have a different interpretation for scripture and belief systems is not necessarily misrepresenting another religious belief. Comparison with other religions finds many similarities to the Trinitarian view of God. I am not alone in this interpretation.
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic
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Contrary to what adherents of modern Judaism might claim, similar theology to the Trinity (though not exactly as defined) is found in the earliest forms of Judaism about Yahweh. I suggest reading works by Michael Heiser to get probably the clearest understanding of this subject. Paul, an expert adherent of ancient Judaism, was essentially drawing from this understanding even though Christ gave more clarity to this concept.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostContrary to what adherents of modern Judaism might claim, similar theology to the Trinity (though not exactly as defined) is found in the earliest forms of Judaism about Yahweh. I suggest reading works by Michael Heiser to get probably the clearest understanding of this subject. Paul, an expert adherent of ancient Judaism, was essentially drawing from this understanding even though Christ gave it more clarity to his understanding.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe earliest forms of Judaism were mixed with Ugarite and Sumarian polytheism including extracts from their cuniform texts and names for gods, and should not be understood as references to the Trinity, because there is no clear relationship.
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Why do I see only one theologian in that list of quotes, Shuny?Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThey are not devoted to justifying their religion.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI have been accused of misrepresenting Christianity by proposing the interpretation that the Trinity is the heresy of polytheism (Tritheism). To have a different interpretation for scripture and belief systems is not necessarily misrepresenting another religious belief. Comparison with other religions finds many similarities to the Trinitarian view of God. I am not alone in this interpretation.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI wasn't talking about connections to ancient Judaism and other ancient cultures centuries prior to Paul. I was talking about Paul of the first century and his connection to Judaism around that time. I meant "ancient" Judaism relative to today.
By the first century when Jesus lived Hellenism dominated Roman establishment Judaism in a Roman world since the conquest by Alexander the Great. Peter was an upper class Hellenist Jew, a Roman citizen, and a strong supporter of Roman authority, and this would not consider him an authority on ancient Judaism, and the Jews and priesthood of the Palestine region, and historical ancient Judaism.
Yes, through out Jewish history there are mystical writings that describe metaphysical spiritual plurality of the nature of God, but these beliefs do not remotely support nor are they comparable to the dogma and doctrine of the Trinity. There is no writings prior to Paul that describe the nature of God as Trinitarian.
The process of the conversion of Jewish Christianity to Roman Christianity from the conversion of Constantine to Theodosius I firmly established a Hellenist/Roman Christianity, and the exclusion of Jewish Christians, who were not represented in the councils that determined the doctrine and dogma. Theodosius I sealed the exclusion of Jews and separation from Christianity.
Described by the historian Sharif as the progressive
An important characteristic of Roman Christianity is the wide spread us of statuary and imagery of of figures considered God, or Divine figures classically and legitimately prohibited in Judaism based on OT scripture, and the mystical unknown apophatic nature of God.Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-10-2016, 08:18 AM.
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Odd how you like to bang on about other religions (i.e. not Ba'hai) being wrong because they haven't 'evolved', yet when one does, like the concept of the Trinity, you're using that to try and show how wrong they got it.
Looks like you just want to bash Christianity, and any stick will do. If Christians had a God-concept more similar to Judaism, I suspect you'd say that that shows how wrong Christianity is, since it hasn't 'evolved'. Here you're saying that it's wrong because it has 'evolved', in line with a new revelation from God.
Poor ol' Jesus just can't do anything that pleases you, can He?...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostOdd how you like to bang on about other religions (i.e. not Ba'hai) being wrong because they haven't 'evolved', yet when one does, like the concept of the Trinity, you're using that to try and show how wrong they got it.
Looks like you just want to bash Christianity, and any stick will do. If Christians had a God-concept more similar to Judaism, I suspect you'd say that that shows how wrong Christianity is, since it hasn't 'evolved'. Here you're saying that it's wrong because it has 'evolved', in line with a new revelation from God.
The OT is a clear example of progressive Revelation, and the rejection of 'outside polytheistic influences' and the restoration of pure unadulterated monotheistic beliefs.
Poor ol' Jesus just can't do anything that pleases you, can He?Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-10-2016, 09:04 AM.
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Shuny is at it again, huh??That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI have been accused of misrepresenting Christianity by proposing the interpretation that the Trinity is the heresy of polytheism (Tritheism). To have a different interpretation for scripture and belief systems is not necessarily misrepresenting another religious belief. Comparison with other religions finds many similarities to the Trinitarian view of God. I am not alone in this interpretation.
Concerning Michael C. Rea's paper, I'm thinking most "Social-Trinitarians" would take major issue with what he hand waves away as "superficial differences" between Amun-Re theology and ST-Christianity on page 141. That said, Rea is a Christian philosopher, and he does not reject the Trinity altogether. Far from it as your own citation points out,
"If, however, there are interpretations of the doctrine of the Trinity which (while avoiding the heresy of modalism) are consistent with monotheism, [And I think that there are: see Brower and Rea (2005).] . . ."
Rea's issue is with various common defenses of the Trinity, particularly those that he refers to as "Social Trinitarianism", and most version of "Relative-Identity Trinitarianism", he (along with Jeffrey E. Brower) offers instead a different defense of the orthodox understanding of the Trinity that he believes to be far more robust that he refers to as the "Aristotelian Solution" which you can read about here.
Rea's issues with Social Trinitarianism have almost nothing in common with your own complaints about the Trinity. He believes that the Trinity can be understood correctly both intuitively and dogmatically, but I'm certain you picked up on this paper after much "research", which amounted to whatever you could hit upon by desperately googling the keywords "Trinity" and "polytheism".
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