Originally posted by thormas
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Actually there are a number of books by scientists who use the same science to dispute other scientists about materialism, mind, consciousness, etc. (I refer you to Amazon).
Of course art and poetry are creative and can each give us a glimpse of the transcendent - some artists and poets intend this and in these and other cases (even where it might not have been intended), the one who experiences the art or the poetry can glimpse 'beyond' himself, beyond the merely physical. Your position on art enslaves man to the material, painting him as incapable of seeing, of soaring, 'beyond' the mundane to experience more. Again, this is not the common experience of most of us.
Of course religious belief is 'unevidenced' ..........that's why its belief :+}
Again you are at odds with most of your fellow men and women who believe the man is unique. Materialist atheism is just one depressing misstep after another at odds with most of us. Of course we're talking about our planet and the present situation (and some of hope that there are other unique beings). So you said man is not unique but he is 'unlike' trees and dogs, so he is sort of a one-off (i.e. unique:+} So close........you're almost there: man is unique, unlike dogs and trees, and, although you did say man is programmed, you added that man is only affected (i.e. influenced) - not determined by genetics/evolution........ just a bit more to say man is (relatively) free to be. And free to be means man is open-ended: his 'past' (genetics and evolution) is not (absolutely) determinative, it is not his all; man's future is open and he can transcend the mundane, the material and .........be.
At least you didn't disagree that the atheist position is illusion :+} So, in spite of what you say about science, your position about the meaningfulness of life from the atheistic position is as much a belief, unknown, without evidence as any religious position.
There are good reasons to believe that God IS (see above) and simply the atheist disagrees, whereas the religious man disagrees with the atheist belief or non-belief :+{
There are good reasons to believe that God IS (see above) and simply the atheist disagrees, whereas the religious man disagrees with the atheist belief or non-belief :+{
You retreat to a failed argument against old time theism that I have previously commented on. The serious religious thinker does not believe God IS to fulfill wishes and has no need for escape from anything.
The only thing most men and women want to escape from is the utter meaninglessness of the atheist position that confines us to the material, that limits our horizon to the physical, that does not consider us unique and is incapable of understanding that we are and can be more than our programming, more than matter, more than the limits atheism places on us.
The only thing most men and women want to escape from is the utter meaninglessness of the atheist position that confines us to the material, that limits our horizon to the physical, that does not consider us unique and is incapable of understanding that we are and can be more than our programming, more than matter, more than the limits atheism places on us.
In other words, “ESCAPISM”.
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