Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic

[mikewhitney]

Indeed. As you say “there is no way to ultimately determine religious beliefs” because they are by their very nature subjective. Whether they be Alexander the Great believing that the god Apollo spoke to him via the Delphic Oracle, assuring him that he was invincible. Or the early followers of Jesus believing that he appeared to them after he was executed and buried.

In neither case could these experiences be shown to be true. But, in both instances, the world was transformed. Alexander conquered the known world, changing it forever. And Christianity grew into one of the great religions. ALL based upon unverified subjective beliefs.

You description here is untenable. A bunch of people don't just think they saw someone raised from the dead. This is not the type of thing that people would be convinced of unless it happened. I don't suppose that you have seen anyone physically that you know had died.

[Tassman]

On the other hand, nobody has the full scientific knowledge to assess what he or she believes. Primarily people accept the idea that various specialties have contributed accurately to the things we take for granted. It is difficult to look to truth beyond what the culture thinks.

Certainly “it is difficult to look to truth beyond what the culture thinks”. But it can be done and has been done many times in human history. Most significantly during the Scientific Revolution when developments in mathematics, physics, astronomy, biology and chemistry transformed the views of society.

[Tassman]

You description here is untenable. A bunch of people don't just think they saw someone raised from the dead. This is not the type of thing that people would be convinced of unless it happened. I don't suppose that you have seen anyone physically that you know had died.

We don't know just what this early "bunch of people" saw.. All that we're given is that Jesus "appeared" to them. Just as "last of all" Jesus "appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born" during Paul's Damascene vision.

[thormas]

Indeed. As you say “there is no way to ultimately determine religious beliefs” because they are by their very nature subjective. Whether they be Alexander the Great believing that the god Apollo spoke to him via the Delphic Oracle, assuring him that he was invincible. Or the early followers of Jesus believing that he appeared to them after he was executed and buried.

In neither case could these experiences be shown to be true. But, in both instances, the world was transformed. Alexander conquered the known world, changing it forever. And Christianity grew into one of the great religions. ALL based upon unverified subjective beliefs.

........or an atheist :+}

In either case, these experiences cannot be shown (proved) to be true.............or false. And I am fine with that acknowledgment, nor have I ever denied that reality.

However, I have been talking about what is presented in the Christian writings and what scholars, based on their expertise are saying about ancient creeds in those writings.

After all that is said and done, then another question might be does one believe, does one buy what is said about Jesus, does one accept the 1st C (and later) presentations and explanations of who Jesus was. We have not gotten to that.

[thormas]

We don't know just what this early "bunch of people" saw.. All that we're given is that Jesus "appeared" to them. Just as "last of all" Jesus "appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born" during Paul's Damascene vision.

We also don't know if it was a bunch of people (as described by Paul) or was it a few of the disciples and followers (Peter, James, John, Magdalene) who had this 'experience/realization' and others believed.

[thormas]

On the other hand, nobody has the full scientific knowledge to assess what he or she believes.

Exactly right Mike........it is belief/ faith as so nicely captured in Thomas' encounter with the risen Jesus.

[thormas]

We don't know just what this early "bunch of people" saw.. All that we're given is that Jesus "appeared" to them. Just as "last of all" Jesus "appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born" during Paul's Damascene vision.

And what is historical fact is Paul's writing of his experience and what came after, how dramatically different he became (so too the disciples and their 'experience' of Jesus risen and exalted).

[shunyadragon]

On the other hand, nobody has the full scientific knowledge to assess what he or she believes.

We do have overwhelming consensus from scientists worldwide as to validity and consistency of scientific knowledge. Individuals (he or she) can believe whatever they wish, but science as a whole remains consistent and predictable regardless of culture. Science does not deal with the sticky finicky and contradictory notion of truth in different cultures and believed by individuals.

Primarily people accept the idea that various specialties have contributed accurately to the things we take for granted. It is difficult to look to truth beyond what the culture thinks.

This probably the first time in a millennia that I possibly agree, which is the problem with the many diverse conflicting cultural perspectives of different religions

[mikewhitney]

We do have overwhelming consensus from scientists worldwide as to validity and consistency of scientific knowledge. Individuals (he or she) can believe whatever they wish, but science as a whole remains consistent and predictable regardless of culture. Science does not deal with the sticky finicky and contradictory notion of truth in different cultures and believed by individuals.



This probably the first time in a millennia that I possibly agree, which is the problem with the many diverse conflicting cultural perspectives of different religions

Just like we have consensus on HCQ+Zinc as a treatment for coronavirus?

[shunyadragon]

Just like we have consensus on HCQ+Zinc as a treatment for coronavirus?

Huh?!?!?! Well there is 'some' objective verifiable evidence that HCQ and Zinc have theraputic effects treating COVID-19, but none as a preventive. Ongoing research is incomplete. There are possible side effects of HCQ treatments. There are more effective treatments for COVI-19 as research continues. Start a thread and we wil dicuss the science behind COVID-19 treatments.

How about a meaningful post on topic.

[mikewhitney]

Huh?!?!?! Well there is 'some' objective verifiable evidence that HCQ and Zinc have theraputic effects treating COVID-19, but none as a preventive. Ongoing research is incomplete. There are possible side effects of HCQ treatments. There are more effective treatments for COVI-19 as research continues. Start a thread and we wil dicuss the science behind COVID-19 treatments.

How about a meaningful post on topic.

Exactly. You helped make my point.

[shunyadragon]

Exactly. You helped make my point.

No point made. Just a post off topic.

[mikewhitney]

No point made. Just a post off topic.

It is fun chatting with you. You never bring up a serious point.

[shunyadragon]

It is fun chatting with you. You never bring up a serious point.

It is accepted that you represent an anti-science religious agenda.

[mikewhitney]

It is accepted that you represent an anti-science religious agenda.

That is where you especially get goofy. You accept things that are so obviously false. This is a pattern for you.

Instead, it seems you follow a religious worship of science instead of the Creator.

There's a general problem today of people blindly following the priesthood of science rather than true science.

That's why it is fun talking to you.