Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic

[Trucker]

You just made an absolute statement.

.....

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You just made an absolute statement.

Based on attested historical evidence.

World War II started on 3 September 1939. That is also "an absolute statement" based on attested historical evidence.

[DesertBerean]

Based on attested historical evidence.

World War II started on 3 September 1939. That is also "an absolute statement" based on attested historical evidence.

Granted. That is a very well attested point in history.

I'm not so sure that kind of certainty can be established for the doctrine of the Trinity being a fourth century construct as you claim.

[Dan Zebiri]

Sheer hypocrisy siam.

Here's what the "word of Allah" in Surah 33/25-27 says to muslims to conquer properties, assets, lands and regions they have never been to before:

"God / Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. So that some ye SLEW, and some ye MADE PRISONERS.

And He made you muslims Heirs of THEIR LANDS, their HOUSES, and their GOODS, and of A LAND which ye had not frequented (IE. GONE TO) BEFORE."

Sura 33/25-27 (Yusuf Ali version)

Show me in the Matthew 28 verses you cited, WHERE Jesus Christ commanded His disciples and followers to "SLAY, TAKE PRISONERS / Forcefully abduct" then "GRAB lands, houses, properties and WHOLE REGIONS" that are NOT THEIRS, like muslims are commanded to physically conquer ILLEGITIMATELY in sura al-Ahzab above ?

These koranic verses are the real perpetrators inciting to wanton hegemony and expansionism, which the caliphs and their henchmen are just happy to oblige.

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” ( Matthew 28:18-20, New International Version.)

This section of Scripture is known as the Great Commission. As the last recorded personal directive of Jesus to his disciples, it holds great significance to all his followers. It is the theological foundation for Christian evangelism, Crusades, and the Doctrine of Discovery. Christians have read this statement as God’s mandate to convert the world to Christianity so that the millennium could begin.

https://christianhegemony.org/the-do...exceptionalism



Note:---In the 21st century, the doctrine of discovery have been "repudiated" by many Christian denominations/Churches globally. (The list is too large to link)
also a reminder---justifications for conquest are not uniquely "Christian" but universally human.

[mikewhitney]

With regard to the Christian texts, of course there isn't. We have no original MSS and rely on copies of copies of copies. Nor are any of the narrative details within these texts confirmed by other extraneous contemporary sources.

I'm surprised you make this amateurish claim. I guess this is a bit easier to fall into in informal discussions in forum threads.

I assume you don't get deep into the textual criticism related to the ability to determine the original text of the NT writings (while having no doctrines affected by the minor differences that are harder to clean up).

If you can overcome the arguments of the textual criticism on the accuracy of the reconstructed Greek, you can certainly address that.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Granted. That is a very well attested point in history.

I'm not so sure that kind of certainty can be established for the doctrine of the Trinity being a fourth century construct as you claim.

Read Eusebius of Caesarea's account of the First Council of Nicaea.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I'm surprised you make this amateurish claim.

You are welcome to produce evidence for a complete original MSS of any of the four gospels.

[mikewhitney]

You are welcome to produce evidence for a complete original MSS of any of the four gospels.

You are making a useless argument here. You are chasing a rabbit. I'm still surprised you are taking this approach.

Maybe I am reading too much in to your request? It sounded like you were asking for the original pages intact after 2000 years. The Nestle-Alan NA28 is broadly accepted. Do you have issues with that text?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You are making a useless argument here. You are chasing a rabbit. I'm still surprised you are taking this approach.

Maybe I am reading too much in to your request? It sounded like you were asking for the original pages intact after 2000 years.

You appeared to consider that my comment was"amateurish". The Nestle-Alan NA28 uses the MSS that are extant. None of these are original MSS, as we do not have those original MSS. We are therefore relying, as I wrote earlier, upon copies of copies of copies with all the attendant scribal errors etc. I recommend Peter Cresswell's The Invention of Jesus: How the Church rewrote the New Testament on this issue.

[DesertBerean]

Read Eusebius of Caesarea's account of the First Council of Nicaea.

If I recall rightly, the first Council confirmed the EXISTENCE of the Trinity doctrine by their rejection of Arius. They also, with some controversy, confirmed the concept of Father and Son being of the same substance. Does Eusebius add to this?

[rogue06]

And yet they did "behave in such a manner", in very large numbers and for many generations.

People are still people. They tend to do things how they want to do them regardless of what they are told.

I guess you never had any kids.

[rogue06]

Yet to be demonstrated or argued for in any convincing manner.

shuny is one of those who thinks that by merely making an assertion that he is corroborating it. And by simply repeating his original claim that he is providing further substantiation.

[Christian3]

( Matthew 28:18-20, New International Version.)

This section of Scripture is known as the Great Commissionhttps://christianhegemony.org/the-do...exceptionalism



Note:---In the 21st century, the doctrine of discovery have been "repudiated" by many Christian denominations/Churches globally. (The list is too large to link)
also a reminder---justifications for conquest are not uniquely "Christian" but universally human.

You do know that the Christian participation in the Crusades was in response of at least 400 years of aggression of Muslim against Christians, don't you?

[Christian3]

Read Eusebius of Caesarea's account of the First Council of Nicaea.

[Christian3]

You appeared to consider that my comment was"amateurish". The Nestle-Alan NA28 uses the MSS that are extant. None of these are original MSS, as we do not have those original MSS. We are therefore relying, as I wrote earlier, upon copies of copies of copies with all the attendant scribal errors etc. I recommend Peter Cresswell's The Invention of Jesus: How the Church rewrote the New Testament on this issue.

There are thousands of copies of the New Testament and in various language; textual analysis can pinpoint any variants and they have and none of them negatively affects Christians doctrine, even Bart Ehrman agrees.