The misuse of science by William Lane Craig and othe Christian apologists.

[seer]

Quantum zero-point energy and quantum fluctuations simply exists with no known boundary. When we go out past the expanding universe there is no known boundary.

Where do they exist outside of this universe? Where does anything exist outside of this universe?

[Carrikature]

How does empty space exist apart from the universe? Where does it exist? And again, there is zero evidence for space existing beyond this cosmos.

Where does the universe exist?

[seer]

Where does the universe exist?

Here, where you live.

[robrecht]

Where does the universe exist?

Here.

[Carrikature]

Here, where you live.

No, I live in the universe.

[seer]

No, I live in the universe.

Yes we do, it's not either or.

[Carrikature]

Here.

And where is 'here'? We could create a coordinate system within our universe and specify 'here' in terms of those coordinates. The universe would need its own system.

I'm not trying to get all esoteric here. I'm just questioning how much sense it makes to ask 'where'.

[robrecht]

And where is 'here'? We could create a coordinate system within our universe and specify 'here' in terms of those coordinates. The universe would need its own system.

I'm not trying to get all esoteric here. I'm just questioning how much sense it makes to ask 'where'.

There too. But if you want a larger coordinate system that includes the/our universe and additional coordinates beyond that/that, you're gonna have to better define your terms. Good luck with that. I truly hope you succeed!

[Carrikature]

There too. But if you want a larger coordinate system that includes the/our universe and additional coordinates beyond that/that, you're gonna have to better define your terms. Good luck with that. I truly hope you succeed!

Exactly!

[shunyadragon]

There too. But if you want a larger coordinate system that includes the/our universe and additional coordinates beyond that/that, you're gonna have to better define your terms. Good luck with that. I truly hope you succeed!

There are no coordinates of the Greater Cosmos except the reference to our own singularity that began the expansion of our universe. What sort of coordinates do you expect us to have?

[shunyadragon]

I guess I will wait for eternity before Shuny actually admits that he was wrong about my posts on E=mc2.

Two things that are boundless...

the universe*

Shuny's pride

* may not be boundless

[shunyadragon]

Where do they exist outside of this universe? Where does anything exist outside of this universe?

e
Again there is no known boundary between inside and outside the universe. Our universe is simply expanding within a greater empty space in a greater cosmos.

[shunyadragon]

No. He characterizes them as "modern science."

No, he does not!!!! He characterizes them as speculative metaphysics. If you cannot read his posts, I will site them specifically!!!!

[Tassman]

Agreed. But good science should not violate good philosophy, either.

I don't ignore them at all. I agree that models and theories are essential. The ability to create abstract, general theories is a crucial factor which distinguishes modern science from its predecessors.

But models and theories are not scientific evidence.

They're based upon existing knowledge and as such they're often accurate predictors of E.g. the Higgs field, a fundamental field of crucial importance to particle physics theory, was first predicted to exist in the 1960s but not shown to actually exist until recently.

[robrecht]

There are no coordinates of the Greater Cosmos except the reference to our own singularity that began the expansion of our universe. What sort of coordinates do you expect us to have?

None, of course.