I've heard one theory that the mob was a bunch of temple servants who were told to say the stuff they said by the religious leaders. I guess the Sanhedrin/Sadducees?Pharisees/et all had blinded themselves to the truth about Jesus?
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Christians Tortured, Humiliated, and Murdered Jesus?
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI dunno. I see it as one of those moments when mob mentality took over. (the IQ of a mob is the IQ of the least intelligent member divided by the number of participants)
Even today how often do people turn on someone simply because the rest of the mob is baying for their blood?
Originally posted by Raphael View PostI like to think that I would have tried to intervene, but who's to say I wouldn't have been swayed by the mob? Heck Jesus closest disciples almost were (Peter's denial of Jesus).
Re: Peter, he denied Jesus because he feared for his life. He was nowhere near being persuaded by a mob to call for Jesus' execution.
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Originally posted by whag View PostCertainly that's a feature of humanity, but a foreign one to many. I submit if you don't know if you'd be persuaded by religious bloodlust or not, you don't know yourself. I know I wouldn't be hypnotized by a mob that called for someone's torture and hanging.
Again, if you can't determine how you'd react in a crowd like this, you don't know who you are. The context of my statement presumed it would be me in my current mental form, not a 1st century Jewish version of me. Obviously, that culture might have shaped me into an easily swayed fiend, but at present I am not such a person.
Re: Peter, he denied Jesus because he feared for his life. He was nowhere near being persuaded by a mob to call for Jesus' execution.
I suppose a contemporary example of rational folks getting caught up in a groupthink or mob mentality is political rhetoric, hyperbole is the norm in politics, but many still behave as if the hyperbole is literal. And a it is still within our lifetime that lynching and school closings were both used to preserve a political and social order that we reject today. So whether legal or extralegal means are used, people will be caught up in the heat of the moment.
People do react strongly when their worldview is threatened. Jesus failed to meet most everyone's expectations. If Jesus played the role of a military Messiah and led an army, many would have followed (messiahs were a dime a dozen in the first century). And a god who fails to stone sinners (especially other sinners) is disappointing to others. When a prominent figure fails to live up to expectations, fickle people will react and sometimes with fury; whether that fury is expressed with violence is the question. I think it is the exceptional person who is unaffected by the thinking of the mob, the reaction is a matter of degree; some will join in on the violence, others will stand aside.
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Originally posted by whag View Postthat culture might have shaped me into an easily swayed fiend, but at present I am not such a person.
"Modern me wouldn't do something so horrible back in a 1st century collectivist society". You know why modern you wouldn't do something like that in the 1st century? Because of 1600 years of deep Christian impact on society and cultural conventions. The same Jesus that you spend so much time shaking your fist at on this forum is the same Jesus who imbued you with your sense of moral indignation, only now pride has got you thinking you're better than your maker.Last edited by Adrift; 08-04-2016, 08:27 AM.
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Originally posted by whag View PostYou've twice quote scriptures that don't advance the discussion at all. Please don't participate unless you have ideas to express.Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostIf they had known Who He was, they would not have killed him. I think Paul wrote something along those lines. I don't think anyone who knew that Jesus of Nazareth was the incarnate Son of God would willingly crucify Him!. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostYes. But it was God's plan to have His Son die for the sins of the world (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 2:8; Matthew 16:21-22; 1 John 3:8).If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Been thinking. If we were back there at the crucifixion, knowing the gospel as we do now, we would NOT have intervened to stop the crucifixion. Because we know it was needed to save mankind. It was horrible, but it was a voluntary sacrifice to save us.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBeen thinking. If we were back there at the crucifixion, knowing the gospel as we do now, we would NOT have intervened to stop the crucifixion. Because we know it was needed to save mankind. It was horrible, but it was a voluntary sacrifice to save us.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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In fact, if you think about it -- who was the most likely person to resist or intervene? Peter, right? He even bragged that he would die with Jesus.
So, what happened when he DID intervene?
They came to arrest Jesus, and peter drew his sword and cut off the ear of Malchus, the servant of the High Priest.
This resulted in yet another stinging rebuke from Jesus to Peter...
I can imagine (because my mind is really weird) in any subsequent time when one of the disciples may have made a move to intervene, or talked about it, that Peter would say "no, that's not what He wants".The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI dunno. I see it as one of those moments when mob mentality took over. (the IQ of a mob is the IQ of the least intelligent member divided by the number of participants)
Even today how often do people turn on someone simply because the rest of the mob is baying for their blood?
I like to think that I would have tried to intervene, but who's to say I wouldn't have been swayed by the mob? Heck Jesus closest disciples almost were (Peter's denial of Jesus).
I'm not sure that attempting to intervene before Pilate would have been productive; it would've taken intervention by a leader like Nicodemus or Joseph of Arimathea to accomplish anything. Attempting to head off the mob by a group of nobodies would have likely just started a riot, making Jesus' followers appear dangerous and giving Pilate further reason to execute him.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI can imagine (because my mind is really weird) in any subsequent time when one of the disciples may have made a move to intervene, or talked about it, that Peter would say "no, that's not what He wants".Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI wish I had thought of that!Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostAfter Peter's denial of Jesus and his recollection of Jesus' prediction concerning that denial, I doubt Peter was in a state of mind to contribute anything to a course of action.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI was composing my reply when you posted that.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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