Originally posted by DesertBerean
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Gary & Rhinestone's Thread on Burial and Resurrection of Christ
Collapse
X
-
I never said that Jesus was crucified for being a violent insurrectionist. He was crucified for claiming to be the King of the Jews: a statement of treason; a capital offense. This is not just my opinion. This is the opinion of the overwhelming majority of scholars.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostIf I had to guess, he's referring to those scholars he googled who support that Jesus was charged for claiming to be King of the Jews, which is a strawman, and not something Evans denies, so it's neither here nor there.
Excellent. Now all you need to do is admit that such a claim in first century Palestine would be considered an act of high treason.
Look it up. Ask the experts. It was an act of high treason.
NT scholar Ben Witherington states in his comment below that the crime given publically by the Romans for crucifying Jesus was for claiming to be the King of the Jews, a political crime, a crime of high treason against Caesar:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Bg...reason&f=falseLast edited by Gary; 05-14-2016, 07:03 PM.
Comment
-
The claim of being the Messiah, and the King of Jews is an act of treason in Rome regardless. It was known that he had apostles and followers. It is obvious in cases of rebellion it would be obvious that they would not be openly armed until they rebel. To allow some one to go around and make the claim without judgement, which is crucifixion for treason, would be a sign of weakness by the Roman authorities.Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-14-2016, 07:08 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gary View PostDo you believe that the passages regarding the trial before Pilate in the Gospel of Mark are historically reliable? If so, Pilate only questions Jesus regarding the Jews' charge of having claimed to be the King of the Jews. Jesus refuses to deny that he had ever claimed this. Why would Pilate spend so much time interrogating Jesus about the claim of being the true ruler of the Jews (and not Caesar) and then execute him for violating some Jewish religious law about which the text is silent??
Based on what we know from historical records, do you think Pilate would wring his hands over the life of one Jew?
I see Pilate speaking with some of the aggrieved leaders. I don't think the full Sanhedrin showed up... there are a few reasons why that is (primarily, it's Passover).
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostFor starters, here . . .Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
Comment
-
Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostYou cannot take the bits of Matthew's and Mark's narrative the support your case (claiming the narrative is reliable) while at the same time dismissing the parts of the narrative that don't support your case (claiming the narrative is unreliable). Either Matthew and Mark are a good source for details concerning the trial of Jesus or they are not. Pick one.Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-14-2016, 07:13 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThese are not bites and pieces. They are direct quotes, deal with it and respond.
Do you have another source that proves Jesus claimed to be the Messiah or that he was convicted of treason?Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
Comment
-
Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostYou cannot take the bits of Matthew's and Mark's narrative the support your case (claiming the narrative is reliable) while at the same time dismissing the parts of the narrative that don't support your case (claiming the narrative is unreliable). Either Matthew and Mark are a good source for details concerning the trial of Jesus or they are not. Pick one.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
-
Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostDirect quotes from a source that both you and Gary consider to be unreliable.
Do you have another source that proves Jesus claimed to be the Messiah or that he was convicted of treason?
The citations clearly answers your question. Jesus Christ clearly and specifically claimed to be the Messiah and the King of the Jews.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gary View PostHe claimed (or at least refused to deny he had claimed) of being the Jewish Messiah. Anyone in Palestine who knew anything about Jews and their religion would know that they were waiting for a messenger from God who would destroy their enemies and re-establish the Davidic throne. If Jesus was claiming to be this Messiah, he was therefore claiming that he was going to overthrow Roman rule. The idea that the Romans understood that Jesus' "kingdom" was spiritual in nature only is preposterous. Even the disciples were expecting up until the last minute to overthrow Rome and sit on real thrones with Jesus in the new Kingdom of Israel.
Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God, both future and present. I don't see that as an earthly kingdom. Jesus was likely referring to his belief about the incoming apocalypse.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe problem question is do you believe the citations are reliable?
The citations clearly answers your question. Jesus Christ clearly and specifically claimed to be the Messiah and the King of the Jews.
Do you believe the source is reliable concerning the trial of Jesus Christ?Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Meh GerbilDo you believe the gospels are a reliable source concerning the trial of Jesus Christ?
Based on this quote below you are doubting the text of the gospels as reliable.
Originally posted by Meh GerbilWhat on earth makes you think Jesus claimed to be Messiah?Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-14-2016, 07:21 PM.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Sparko, 06-25-2024, 03:03 PM
|
47 responses
244 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, 06-20-2024, 10:04 AM
|
27 responses
147 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Cow Poke
06-27-2024, 01:35 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 06-18-2024, 08:18 AM
|
82 responses
486 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
|
||
Started by whag, 06-15-2024, 09:43 AM
|
156 responses
648 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
06-29-2024, 06:38 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 01-18-2024, 01:35 PM
|
53 responses
424 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
|
Comment