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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Gary & Rhinestone's Thread on Burial and Resurrection of Christ
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostNo, being thrown into a hole in the ground to have your corpse devoured by crows and wild dogs is not at all the same thing as being buried.
Nope. You're the one who's making the assumptions that Jesus' body was thrown into a pit to be devoured by wild animals. If such an alternative existed, then the early church's enemies would have mentioned it. They don't. Rather, they assume the empty tomb tradition.
A hole in the ground is not burial.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostEven most Christian apologists agree that there are embellishments in the Resurrection Stories in the four Gospels of the Christian New Testament. In particular, Matthew's tale of dead saints coming out of their graves to roam the streets of Jerusalem on the day of the Resurrection. In addition, many Christian apologists agree with skeptics that Matthew's story of Roman guards guarding the tomb of Jesus is most likely an embellishment. Only the most ardent of Christian fundamentalists believe that these two Matthean tales are historical. ...Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
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"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostPlease name one "church enemy" in the first century AD who assumed the empty tomb (using a source other than the Gospels, whose historical reliability is under question).
Gary: Okay, I'll fight, but first I want my opponent to tie both his hands behind his back, and then light himself on fire.
You couldn't be anymore obvious man. Every single time you throw one of these challenges you make yourself look stupid. Every single time. You'd think you'd learn by now.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostNo, being thrown into a hole in the ground to have your corpse devoured by crows and wild dogs is not at all the same thing as being buried.
Nope. You're the one who's making the assumptions that Jesus' body was thrown into a pit to be devoured by wild animals. If such an alternative existed, then the early church's enemies would have mentioned it. They don't. Rather, they assume the empty tomb tradition.
A hole in the ground is not burial.
The evidence clearly indicates that the Romans left the bodies on the cross for days or weeks. They eventually took the bodies, or what was left of them, down, put them in a collective hole, and covered that hole with dirt.
That meets the definition of "was buried" by every definition in the dictionary! I don't know what you are raving about.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostI fully admit that I have biases. But I am not closed minded. After all I have a history of "changing sides" after reviewing the evidence for four months.
If someone can present better evidence than what I have seen so far I would consider changing sides again.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostI don't know that most would consider Craig Keener to be an "ardent... fundamentalist," but ok.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Adrift View Post
Gary: Okay, I'll fight, but first I want my opponent to tie both his hands behind his back, and then light himself on fire.
You couldn't be anymore obvious man. Every single time you throw one of these challenges you make yourself look stupid. Every single time. You'd think you'd learn by now.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostI don't know what you are raving about.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt looks to me more like you got into an argument with your pastor because he was insufficiently pure for you, and in your angst you found an excuse to walk away from Christianity altogether.
Based on your interactions here, I highly doubt it. You continually shift goalposts, impose unreasonably high bars, and attempt to divert attention away from evidence or arguments you can't otherwise wave away. Your mind is shut tight.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostYes, I realize that is what you have been taught. So was I. But I believe you and I were taught an ancient, fear-based superstition that has no basis in reality. I am trying to help you break away from the clutches of supernaturalism.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostI don't know that most would consider Craig Keener to be an "ardent... fundamentalist," but ok.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostAnd sadly your rage against me and your intense desire to shut me up shows just how brainwashed you are by your cult. This is why I speak out against your fear-based, superstitious belief system. It makes sane people think and act like nut cases.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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A mass grave is still a grave, friends. Being buried in a mass grave (hole in the ground) is still "buried".
There is nothing in Paul's statements in his epistles that conflict with the likely possibility that early Christians believed that Jesus had been resurrected from a mass grave of recently executed Roman criminals---all based on alleged appearances after his burial in this unmarked, mass grave to prominent male members of the early Church.
The reality of the bodily Resurrection of Jesus all hinges on the veracity of the alleged post-death appearances. And since tens of thousands of people, throughout history and in many cultures, have claimed to have seen their recently departed loved one appear to them "in the flesh", the claims of early Christians living two thousand years ago, in a very superstitious, primitive culture, of seeing a resurrected Jesus, should be evaluated with the same level of scrutiny that we evaluate "dead-family/friend-sightings" today: very implausible, and most likely a psychological trick of the grieving mind.Last edited by Gary; 05-12-2016, 02:04 PM.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostHuh???
The evidence clearly indicates that the Romans left the bodies on the cross for days or weeks. They eventually took the bodies, or what was left of them, down, put them in a collective hole, and covered that hole with dirt.
That meets the definition of "was buried" by every definition in the dictionary! I don't know what you are raving about.
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