Cornelius and Total Depravity

[Dave L]

Okay, here is Scripture support for my statement that God reaches out to ALL people:

Acts 17:24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’

This is not about salvation. Why? “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” John 3:19 (KJV 1900)

[brightfame52]

Okay, here is Scripture support for my statement that God reaches out to ALL people:

Acts 17:24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’

Thats about the elect, the Sheep !

[Littlejoe]

Yes faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22 A Spiritually dead in sin person cannot hear Spiritually.

Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...

Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.

[Cow Poke]

Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...

Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.

Wishing you a very Merry Christmas (a few days ago) and a much better New Year than the one we had.

[brightfame52]

Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...

Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.

Gal 5:22 tells us that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit !

[footwasher]

This is not about salvation. Why? “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” John 3:19 (KJV 1900)

Well they aren't seeking God for toilet rolls, even though that was recently in short supply:
Acts 1727that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

[footwasher]

Thats about the elect, the Sheep !

Read up about Hebrew synthetic parallelism.

Then apply it here:

Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,

[Dave L]

Well they aren't seeking God for toilet rolls, even though that was recently in short supply:
Acts 1727that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Only the elect seek the true God. The rest seek idols. Why didn't Jesus pray for all but the elect only if you have a grasp on this? “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” John 17:9 (KJV 1900)

[Dave L]

Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...

Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)


“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2 (KJV 1900)

[brightfame52]

Read up about Hebrew synthetic parallelism.

Then apply it here:

Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,

That scripture refers to the Children of God/elect scattered throughout the world Jn 11:51-52

⁵¹ And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

⁵² And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Now the word children here teknon means among other things, offspring offspring, children

Now if you read in the context of Acts 17:29

²⁹ Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

So I believe Paul knew that some of these pagans were born of God, and were Gods Spiritual children. And as a result some of them believed Acts 17:34

³⁴ Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

Those belonged to the offspring of God ! His Sheep. Acts 13:48

⁴⁸ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

[Dave L]

That scripture refers to the Children of God/elect scattered throughout the world Jn 11:51-52

⁵¹ And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

⁵² And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Now the word children here teknon means among other things, offspring offspring, children

Now if you read in the context of Acts 17:29

²⁹ Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

So I believe Paul knew that some of these pagans were born of God, and were Gods Spiritual children. And as a result some of them believed Acts 17:34

³⁴ Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

Those belonged to the offspring of God ! His Sheep. Acts 13:48

⁴⁸ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

I fully agree. Only those ordained to eternal life are his sheep. Act 13:48

[footwasher]

That scripture refers to the Children of God/elect scattered throughout the world Jn 11:51-52

⁵¹ And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

⁵² And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Now the word children here teknon means among other things, offspring offspring, children

Now if you read in the context of Acts 17:29

²⁹ Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

So I believe Paul knew that some of these pagans were born of God, and were Gods Spiritual children. And as a result some of them believed Acts 17:34

³⁴ Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

Those belonged to the offspring of God ! His Sheep. Acts 13:48

⁴⁸ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

But synthetic parallelism states that:

Synthetic parallelism involves the completion or expansion of the idea of the first part in the second part.


So in this case:

Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,



In other words, the ALL people of v25 is also the every nation of mankind of v26

In other words, God wishes ALL people to seek Him, not just the Elect.

Your discussion style is pretty good, by the way! Praise the Lord!

[Esther]

IOW human nature before justification is not valueless trash - God does not make trash;

I found your writing beautiful and moving. The God don't make no trash thought however is horrible theology. Here is a good quote I came across once. What do you think?

The “God don’t make trash” half-truth is a denial of the basic Christian doctrine that we have all been trashed by the fall. If the work of a great artist were vandalized, it would be honoring to him to say you still see traces of beauty in it, but he would be grossly insulted if anyone thought his vandalized work was what he intended and a true reflection of his artistry. Grantley Morris~

[Dave L]

But synthetic parallelism states that:

Synthetic parallelism involves the completion or expansion of the idea of the first part in the second part.


So in this case:

Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,



In other words, the ALL people of v25 is also the every nation of mankind of v26

In other words, God wishes ALL people to seek Him, not just the Elect.

Your discussion style is pretty good, by the way! Praise the Lord!

If God wanted to save all, he would. (With God all things are possible). But you are not balancing your claims against the scriptures that say otherwise.

[footwasher]

If God wanted to save all, he would. (With God all things are possible). But you are not balancing your claims against the scriptures that say otherwise.

But then how would true love be manifested? God created a garden because He wanted true love to appear. With your schema, it wouldn't be possible. True love must emanate from the plant. In other words, the first cause must be the plant, not the Gardener. If it was the Gardener, if He only wanted the effect, not the reality, He might as well have stuck the fruit on the plant. What does the text say? The greatest of these is love. That's why we want the real McCoy, not the Mickey mouse version.