Most difficult Scripture?

[Cow Poke]

Yes, certainly Jesus is both. Since we're all human, we do one or the other better.

Thinking about your video, the one I would do if I ever got the gumption would be "I'm saved, now what?"

Good idea! Because I plan on having several versions to rotate each Sunday.

[footwasher]

Did Abraham and other prophets know of John 3:16? Obviously not!

I am asking whether any person who reads or hears John 3:16 can simply believe and be saved. I say yes. The Holy Spirit can then enter them, lead them and they will find themselves hungering and thirsting for righteousness and want to hear and read more of the Word.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Please let me know where the videos are once they're posted. I'd like to take a look.

[Cow Poke]

Please let me know where the videos are once they're posted. I'd like to take a look.

Sure. I sat down one night and recorded about 20 times before I found one that was kinda sorta acceptable.

The challenge is that, when you are witnessing to somebody in person, you can get an immediate sense of "are they with me", or does that point need more explanation...

Example... on the concept that "you have to get them lost before you can get them saved" - when you mention that there is none righteous, and we are all sinners, it would be great to see a nod, "yeah, I know *I'M* a sinner.... then you can move on...

But I had somebody just this morning argue that "they don't need to admit they're lost".

[Esther]

That tends to make John 3:16 seem like "the magic verse" or something -- I think you're on better foundation by acknowledging that the Holy Spirit is key. I think I'm in the minority here sometimes when, for example, I don't think somebody has to affirm the virgin birth to be saved.

My asking chiefsinner and fareastbird about John 3:16 was in response to what I read to be their rather complicated to and fro understanding and explanations and arguments re salvation and wanted to show a simple example of how a person can be saved by believing one verse. Not the magic verse of course but certainly a magic verse.

[Cow Poke]

My asking chiefsinner and fareastbird about John 3:16 was in response to what I read to be their rather complicated to and fro understanding and explanations and arguments re salvation were and wanted to show a simple example of how a person can be saved by believing one verse. Not the magic verse of course but certainly a magic verse.

Yes, I meant to make it more clear that I'm inclined to your side of the argument, with the emphasis being on the Holy Spirit. Even a child can accept Christ as Savior, and John 3:16 is an excellent launching pad.

[footwasher]

My asking chiefsinner and fareastbird about John 3:16 was in response to what I read to be their rather complicated to and fro understanding and explanations and arguments re salvation and wanted to show a simple example of how a person can be saved by believing one verse. Not the magic verse of course but certainly a magic verse.

The record shows that people were saved when they saw a great work being done. Strangely, when you make a spiritual claim, and it's a risky claim, with seemingly no worldly logic, and you are rescued by God, it CAN open the hearts of the listener. Apparently he or she has been thinking along the same lines, and it shocks him or her into realising it is a supernatural rescue. That's why we have to pick up our crosses every day. Of course in certain situations, with language and educational barriers, after you preach the Gospel, you may have to do an actual supernatural act, like praying for the sick. That's why you have so many reports of healing in third world countries. So much so that Hindu and Muslim governments ban missionary organisations from entering.

[FarEastBird]

[FarEastBird]

My asking chiefsinner and fareastbird about John 3:16 was in response to what I read to be their rather complicated to and fro understanding and explanations and arguments re salvation and wanted to show a simple example of how a person can be saved by believing one verse. Not the magic verse of course but certainly a magic verse.

Please read my latest response to chiefsinner.

[footwasher]

This simply means people should believe God exists.

Abraham was put in dangerous situations and rescued. Israel was put in dangerous situations and rescued. This is called drinking from Christ, experiencing crucifixion and resurrection.

John 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.

So the knowledge and understanding of the true Godhead is the Eternal Life itself!

It is not knowing God that you propose to mean of knowing as Adam knew Eve. I believe you are espousing an estrange doctrine with that.

Now, NONE can know God except God, or Christ, reveals it unto us (Luke 10:22, Mat 11:27). So the salvation, which is knowing God, TOTALLY rests in God. We are given the gospel to know God, yet to gain understanding was given to whom will be given (Matt 13:10-12). Thus is why Faith, which is the knowledge and understanding of the Godhead, is a gift! Our salvation is a gift. Since it is God himself who gives knowledge and understanding of the Godhead, he can save anyone from any generation, any tribe, even unto them who have not heard of the Gospel.

Your wrong view of salvation implies lack of knowledge of the truth about the Godhead.

See above.

[FarEastBird]

This simply means people should believe God exists.
.

[themuzicman]

Being really late to the party....

Jacob was chosen to fulfill covenant, not to eternal life. Esau was rejected for fulfilling covenant (in spite of being the oldest). Again, nothing to do with eternal life. God occasionally chooses individuals to perform certain roles, sometimes before they were born.

This is mentioned in Romans 9 as a parallel to the two groups within the nation of Israel, the remnant, like Jacob, chosen to fulfill covenant. The rest, like Esau, rejected for fulfilling covenant. This is why the question of whether God is just comes up.

[footwasher]

Being really late to the party....

Jacob was chosen to fulfill covenant, not to eternal life. Esau was rejected for fulfilling covenant (in spite of being the oldest). Again, nothing to do with eternal life. God occasionally chooses individuals to perform certain roles, sometimes before they were born.

This is mentioned in Romans 9 as a parallel to the two groups within the nation of Israel, the remnant, like Jacob, chosen to fulfill covenant. The rest, like Esau, rejected for fulfilling covenant. This is why the question of whether God is just comes up.

Jacob IS Israel. The two nations in Rachel's womb were Israel and non-Israel, both descendants of Abraham, and technically, qualified to be recipients of the promise to Abraham. In Romans 9, metaphorically standing for sheep of the native flock, and sheep of another flock, Jew and Gentile. Abraham's descendants are identified by faith, so Abraham is the father of all those who have faith, whether Jew or Gentile, whether a Torah flock or another flock, a native branch or a wild branch, possessing the Covenant or not possessing it.

So nations, groups, corporate entities, not individuals, are chosen to perform certain roles, and the choice is arbitrary. Esau never served Jacob, but the nation he formed, Edom, WAS enslaved by Israel.

Before Israel had done anything good or bad, she was chosen, to be disobedient. Then why is she blamed? Who is Israel to ask why she was set up to disbelieve in Messiah? Doesn't the Potter have the right to make from SAME lump of clay whatever He chooses, to be a vessel of dishonor, even?

Second, the remnant are not Christians. They are faithful Jews, who believed God's teaching that all the Law had to be followed, both the minor points as well as the weightier issues, justice, mercy and loyalty. According to the Law, righteous. As opposed to the others, who used a technicality, that children of Abraham were identified by circumcision, dietary and purity laws, and were unconditionally destined to be given the blessing. Even today, there are remnants in Judaism. If it were not so, Israel would have gone the way of Sodom and Gomorrah, vanished.

The Law was given to be a guardian. It never ceased to be one, even after Jesus was sent. Israel disobeyed, as she was meant to, to allow the entry of the Gentiles, but she did not become extinct. God's word has not failed, her hardening is only temporary. When the right number of Gentiles are gathered, the hardening will be lifted.