Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

What is the Gospel?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Gospel of the Grace of God !

    Some of the jews had been chosen in Christ, but many were Just called to be in the physical nation , so many were called but few were chosen before time began.. Also this choosing and grace that is active before time to certain individuals is not based upon any foreseen actions or merit of the ones Chosen, verified by Rom 9:11

    11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth).

    They did not exist and they had did no activity.

    Now this scripture Rom 9:11 has been most hated and twisted to erase its obvious and natural meaning. Paul here speaks of the purpose of God as in Eph 1; the election here is of individuals as it is in Eph 1. Now even though Jacobs individual election effects the National election of Israel, this none the less does not take away from from the primary elective principal of an individual which is in view in Rom 9:11. Election Paul teaches is on the sole basis of God's Eternal Purpose in Christ as in Eph 1 and not any foreseen actions or merit, for it was for this error that Rom 9 11 was written, to contend against the ideal that some foreseen action or merit or faith was the cause of election, for if such was the case, that election was premised on foreseen faith or merit, then salvation would be by works.5

    Comment



    • The Gospel of the Grace of God

      The bible teaches antecedent grace in another specific eternal truth, that of some having been predestinated unto the conformity of the image of God's Son, that He may be the Firstborn of many brethren Rom 8:29

      29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

      This scripture too has been wrested by the adversary, by those calling themselves believers in Christ, though they quote the scripture properly, there interpretation goes against the True meaning. They make it read as what God foresaw, that He foreknew who would believe in Christ in time, so He predestinated them before time, which nonsense gives a finite creature control over the actions of a Infinite Being and Sovereign, that finite is causative of infinite action, man has the precedence over God, and makes Faith which is a what, and not a whom, that which was foreknown; whereas this foreknowledge is of persons "whom" and not actions or conditions i.e Faith and Repentance ! So the correct understanding and rendering of foreknow is vital.

      Comment



      • Foreknow in the Gospel !

        So the correct understanding and rendering of foreknow is vital.

        Its a compound greek word made up of pro [before] and gnosis [to know], but this does not refer to mere knowing beforehand, or cognizance of the existence or actions of persons is quite obvious from a number of considerations. First Jesus will proclaim to many in the Judgment day that He never Knew[gnosis] them-and tells them to depart from Him, and surely He does not mean that He was not cognizance of their persons and their actions as pointed out in the previous verse 22

        22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        In addition, God's foreknowledge is not passive prescience, but a active ordaining force, for the same word is used as foreordained in 1 Pet 1 20

        20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

        and again in Acts 2:23

        23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

        It was God's determinate counsel and foreknowledge that delivered Christ to be crucified, and in addition, His foreknowledge was preceded by His Purpose to do so, and so it [God's foreknowledge] is affixed and subordinate to His decrees.5
        Last edited by brightfame52; 07-05-2023, 06:48 AM.

        Comment


        • Foreknow in the Gospel !


          Also the word know is used in other ways than mere cognizant of existence of some one or something, but it also carries the connotation of to approve or the parallel clause suggest to esteem , to Love 1 Thess 5:12-13


          12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

          13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

          The word know is instructive and enlightening in this verse Matt 1:25

          25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

          Where the sense here for the word know is living together or union. The NIV for this verse reads:

          25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

          So, to know does imply a union, a fore-union. Those Christ or The Father foreknew was by foreunion !

          So Jesus can very well mean in Matt 7 23, I never had a union with you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity..

          Some would say that to foreknow is the same as election because in Rom 8:29 to foreknow goes before predestination, and in Eph 1:4-5 Election goes before predestination, but that they are not exactly the same is seen from 1 Pet 1:2

          2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

          But they are conjoined, and hence Here God's foreknowledge is God's foreordaining certain people in His elective purposes unto gospel obedience..

          Comment



          • Preaching the Gospel of the Grace of God !

            Antecedent Grace goes before to regenerate the ones who are to believe in Christ, for thats the intended meaning of a very misunderstood verse verse in Titus 2:11

            11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

            Here Grace is said to bring salvation, converting the sinner and teaching them how to live in light of the second coming of Christ vs

            12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

            13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


            You see, vs 12 and 13 are adjoined to vs 11, the grace here brings experimental salvation or conversion. Those who twist the truth run for this verse to support their unscriptural views that God's Grace is made possible for all without exception. But Paul is actually testifying to a Sovereign work of the Grace of God to all the elect of all nations.

            This is so because the dead sinner must be quickened, that is made alive as per Eph 2:1,5

            1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


            5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

            The dead sinner must first be made alive to do anything spiritual, how can one dead in sin deny ungodliness ? So then, how can a dead in sin person repent and turn to the Lord ? Is not that a form of denying ungodliness ?

            So the Grace of God brings regenerating Grace to quicken alive all the elect men and women for whom Christ died, to convert them to a life dedicated to the Holy Purpose of God..5

            Comment


            • Be made alive First !

              Can a dead man do anything ? Absolutely not. Could Lazarus come forth without being made alive first by the power of Christ ? Only the deceived would answer in the affirmative, but that's why the figure of death is wisely used to describe the lost person, to indicate his or her total inability to bring oneself to life, a resurrection is therefore needed. However many deceived souls believe they can regenerate themselves, bring themselves to life because they claim they are made alive as soon as they Believe ! But the question remains, can a spiritually dead person perform an spiritual act, as can a physically dead person can perform a physical act ? Believe the Gospel, is spiritual act, for the gospel is a spiritual message, for its the Gospel of God who is Spirit Rom 1:1

              1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

              Jn 4:24

              24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

              Scripture is very clear that the natural man cannot receive a spiritual word 1 Cor 2:13-14

              13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

              14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

              The word receive here in context means:

              to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject

              The Natural man cannot receive favourably the Gospel, cannot give ear to it, nor embrace it, or make it his own, nor give approval, or not reject it.

              So, they cannot believe it ! We must first be spiritually quickened, that is made alive, which is what the Truth teaches, and this being the case, then there is absolutely nothing in the natural man to cause him to be saved.

              Matt 19:25-26


              25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

              26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

              Jesus here is not advocating synergism as in God and Man can work together in a man becoming saved, but instead He is affirming that salvation is out of the control and ability of man, and relies solely on God's ability, that is Salvation is only possible if God saves us !

              If we are saved, it must be wholly by the Grace of God, in God's elective purposes [election of grace] for no works or abilities of our own are sufficient or needed.

              Thats the meaning of Eph 2:5

              5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

              Before believing one must be passed from death unto life ![see Jn 5:24]

              That God makes alive some people even while still dead in sin, even dead in unbelief !

              Folks if man is saved by his own faith, that faith is an ability in us, then God does not save us by His ability only, but we save ourselves, and to us [at least partly] is the glory due, however if we be dead in sin and unbelief, and totally incapacitated from doing any good [which is true whether we believe it or not] spiritually, and Faith be a gift of God's electing Grace, then salvation is surely of Grace, it is of God, and to Him be all the Glory..

              Rev 19:1

              And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 6

              Comment


              • Grace goes before to give Faith !

                Grace goes before to give Faith ! Thus making salvation to be solely of God's Grace Eph 2:8 to be saved by grace through faith, is all of grace, even the Faith is of grace, for believers believe through or by means of grace, the very grace we are saved by Acts 18:27

                27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

                Also the word believed in this scripture is in the perfect tense , denoting the permanency of their believing, they will always believe.

                Now in addition there are many scriptures that allocate faith to the grace of God, though they are ignored or wrested to give man the glory. The proud sinner will not bow to God in that He is Sovereign in Salvation, even in who believes, and those who do not yet confess this, are still not taught of God. We will look at some text that absolutely teach the Sovereignty of God in who Believes, even though I am sure they will be assailed.

                Comment


                • Grace goes before to give Faith ! cont

                  I will be sharing a few scriptures from the word of God that confirms that Grace goes before to give Faith, Acts 18:27b confirmed it, but now lets read Acts 13:48

                  48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

                  Now this ordination is an eternal act of God, yet the opposer's of God's Truth will swear that a man can ordain himself to eternal life [what arrogance ] and how deceived. But taken in its most plainest meaning this verse means that a person believes because they had been ordained to eternal life, in other words they had been Heirs of Promise.

                  The greek word for ordained in the verse is tasso and means:

                  to put in order, to station

                  a) to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint

                  1) to assign (appoint) a thing to one

                  b) to appoint, ordain, order

                  1) to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority

                  2) to appoint mutually, i.e. agree

                  It is also in the perfect tense in the greek a perfect passive participle.

                  This means they once and for all in the past were ordained or appointed to eternal life, such arrangement continuing into the present. The passive voice is the subjects being acted upon, and not the subjects acting upon themselves.

                  Of the eight times this verb is used in the NT its not once used in the middle voice, the closest usage with that meaning is in 1 Cor 16:15


                  15I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

                  Where the word is translated addicted, they are said to have addicted themselves to the ministry, but even then, the verb is followed by the pronoun autou !

                  And of course if anyone knows anything about Sovereign Grace, even then that addicting was due to God working in them both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

                  So, unless one has been ordained to eternal life by God, a Eternal act, they cannot believe the Truth of the Gospel, or believe in Christ.

                  Comment


                  • There are no scriptures teaching that we as natural men have the inherent ability to believe the Truth of God, for we must hear [spiritually] to believe, and we must be born of God to hear ! For Faith cometh by Hearing Rom 10:17 and being of God is requisite to hear Jn 8:47

                    He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                    So, if we believe, its through Grace Acts 18:27b, by the power of God Eph 1:19, for Faith [the ability to believe] is given to every man [ elect] Rom 12:3; some times its given by ministers who God blesses the gospel message to its hearers 1 Cor 3:5


                    5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

                    Now another scripture to consider Phil 1:29

                    29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

                    Notice that it is given, not offered, in behalf of Christ to believe on His name, for to believe on Christ is not up to man's so called imaginary freewill and contingency, but its given by God, for Christ sake, for its part of the fruit of His reward for those He bore their sins, to believe in Him..

                    So believing in Christ is not something any sinner does to save themselves from hell, but they [believers] are the Fathers gift to His Son for His suffering and Death..

                    Thats why it reads in Isa 53:10

                    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.6

                    Comment



                    • Now another scripture to consider Phil 1:29

                      29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

                      Notice that it is given, not offered, in behalf of Christ to believe on His name, for to believe on Christ is not up to man's so called imaginary freewill and contingency, but its given by God, for Christ sake, for its part of the fruit of His reward for those He bore their sins, to believe in Him..

                      Also the Apostle Paul teaches here in Phil 1:29 that both believing and suffering are given as gifts of God, for he tells the believers in phillipi that these things hath been granted unto them. Suffering for Christ is a great privilege Matt 5:10-12

                      10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

                      11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

                      12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you
                      .

                      Acts 5:4

                      41And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

                      And the suffering and afflictions also have been appointed by God as so was the believing.

                      1 Thess 3:3

                      That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed[destined] thereunto.

                      Comment


                      • Another scripture indicating that Grace goes before Faith or believing is Acts 16:14

                        14And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

                        This verse is describing how God imparts Faith in a Person, for its a Divine Operation, that we can attend [pay attention] to the things of God, for God works with the Heart, Rom 10:9-10

                        9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

                        10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

                        Remember Phillip said to the Ethiopian eunuch before baptism if what ? Acts 8:37

                        37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

                        The Eunech gave evidence to Philip that he had believed his witness to him of Christ, probably from the close attention he observed the eunuch paying to his teaching, his willingness to learn and listen, he was not combative of things of God and challenging and debating him. Phillip could tell a work of Divine Grace had been implanted in him..

                        The apostles could perceive that a work of grace had happened in Paul before they gave him the right hand of fellowship per Gal 2:9

                        9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

                        God had done unto the Saul turned Paul what He done unto Lydia, opened the heart to believe the things of God, this is done by God through Grace, for they believed through Grace Acts 18:27

                        27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

                        In Acts 16 14 it is clearly stated that God opened her heart, for she did not open her own heart, nor did Paul open her heart, but The Lord, the Master did it..by His conquering Grace and Spirit..

                        Without this Divine opening, no one could believe the sacred Truths and Mysteries of the Gospel..6

                        Comment



                        • Another scripture to look at that supposes Grace operating in order to believe or have Faith is Acts 15:8-9​

                          8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;​

                          9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

                          It should be noted that it is God who does the purifying of the heart ! Note: If man believes its his own faith that purifies the heart, then we become guilty of this thinking Prov 20:9​

                          9Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?​

                          The act of purifying hearts by Faith is an act of God and not mans. The Faith that purifies is an product of the blood of Christ.​

                          Comment



                          • Lk 17:5

                            5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

                            This prayer would not be relevant if Faith was of human ability, but if its of God, which the apostles here seem to imply, He being the Author and Finisher and the source of it, then this prayer is in order.

                            Comment



                            • That there must be antecedent Grace before Believing is seen again in this passage Jn 6:64-65

                              64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

                              65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. see Phil 1:29

                              The word therefore connects the unbelief of these with the fact that it had not been given unto them of the Father to come unto Christ, this confirms that the coming and believing are the same, and so scriptures like Jn 6:37,44

                              37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                              44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

                              These regards Faith, that is to come believing in Him, from the Father revealing Him to them as per Matt 16:16

                              16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

                              17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

                              Thats why they could come to Him Believing in Him.6

                              Comment


                              • That there must be antecedent Grace before Believing is seen again in this passage Jn 10:26

                                26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

                                One must first be a sheep before they can believe in Christ. We cannot make ourselves sheep either Ps 100:3

                                3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

                                We must be made a New Creature in Christ before we can Believe in Him, else how can darkness come into the Light ?

                                Before being made a new creature, we are darkness Paul writes Eph 5:8

                                8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

                                So, how could darkness trust in Light ? Its impossible. By Nature Christ is Light

                                Jn 12:35-36


                                35Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

                                36While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

                                By nature we are darkness and cannot come to the light Eph 5:8 and Jn 3:19-20

                                19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

                                20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

                                So Grace must go before and create us into Children of Light to believe in the Light..6

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X