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What is the Gospel?

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  • What is the Gospel?

    What is the Gospel?

    John Piper says:

    Quote
    The gospel is the good news that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for our sins and rose again, eternally triumphant over his enemies, so that there is now no condemnation for those who believe, but only everlasting joy. That’s the gospel.

    https://www.desiringgod.org/topics/the-gospel#


    N. T. Wright says:

    Quote
    “The gospel is the royal announcement that the crucified and risen Jesus, who died for our sins and rose again according to the Scriptures, has been enthroned as the true Lord of the world. When this gospel is preached, God calls people to salvation, out of sheer grace, leading them to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as the risen Lord.” – Christianity Today, June 2009

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...-wright/%3famp


    Piper says the announcement that Jesus has become King isn't good news because it means that judgment is about to be made.

    Quote
    One of the more peculiar objections that John Piper raises against Wright’s understanding of Paul’s ‘gospel’ is that the announcement that Jesus is Lord ‘is an absolutely terrifying message to a sinner who has spent all his life ignoring or blaspheming the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ’ (Piper, The Future of Justification, 86-87). It is, therefore, not good news at all.

    https://www.postost.net/2009/07/pipe...ghts-good-news


    However, in the article about the interview with Wright, Trevin Wax received an answer which says the Gospel is good news because it results in:

    Quote
    God’s justice, God’s peace, God’s world is going to be renewed.

    In other words, we should not confuse what the good news is with what the result of that news is.

    The good news is a fair and holy king has been enthroned. The result is that good people will finally have the system they deserve, and their good deeds will be rewarded.

    Who do you think is right?

    Do you have your own understanding of what the Gospel is?

    Explain.
    Last edited by footwasher; 03-14-2021, 12:58 PM.

  • #2
    What's Good News to one person can be terrifying news to another. The Lord is returning some day. For some that is good news. To others, it will be a dreadful, terrifying event.

    The only minor difference I can see between Wright and Piper is Wright's use of "the announcement that Jesus is Lord". That would lead to the controversy when John McArthur wrote The Gospel According to Jesus, and the use of the term, "Lordship Salvation". Is that salvation by works?

    Salvation requires the repentance from sin, not just a head knowledge. Denying the Lordship of Jesus is sin. Therefore I would make repentance from sin as acceptance of the Lordship of Jesus.

    Wright is right.
    When I Survey....

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Faber View Post
      Wright is right.
      Good answer.

      However, the problem I have with all the explanations, even John MacArthur's, is that they have no continuity with the Scriptural record.

      For example, starting from the beginning, what does:

      Genesis 3.15And I will make enemies Of you and the woman, And of your offspring and her Descendant; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise Him on the heel.”

      have to do with Wright's answer that the Good News is Jesus is Lord, not Caesar?

      When a new King rose to the throne in Rome, it would be announced, "Augustus is Lord" or "XYZ is Lord", meaning sweetness and light are about to come into the world, because he would fix things. Of course, no one believed any of the stuff, the new King would be just as unable to fix things as the old one, it was just politics. Paul was following tradition. According to Wright, the Gospel was a challenge to the old King, Rome.

      Caesar is not the serpent, is he?

      Comment


      • #4
        I take the early chapters of Genesis literally, but I must admit I have the question, what were/are the serpent's offspring? Demons? Evil world rulers and emperors? Rattlesnakes? If I knew the answer to that, I could probably answer your question.
        When I Survey....

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Faber View Post
          I take the early chapters of Genesis literally, but I must admit I have the question, what were/are the serpent's offspring? Demons? Evil world rulers and emperors? Rattlesnakes? If I knew the answer to that, I could probably answer your question.
          Again, where is the continuity with another theme in Scripture, about restoration:

          Gen 12.2And I will make you into a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing;

          Adam was a blessing to the world, taming it like a wrangler tames a horse, so that it can serve the Owner, bring it to its rightful relationship to God.

          In effect God promised to restore that vocation to Abraham and his descendants.

          How is the Gospel a fulfilment of that, if it is the announcement of a new development, news, that Jesus is Lord?

          Comment


          • #6
            It often seems that people object to others not because there is a real problem but because they belong to different parties. If Wright differs only in adding that Jesus is King, it depends upon your vision of kingship. Jesus view of the role would not be the same as Caesar’s. Rather for him the king loves his people and is willing to die for them. I think Wright is trying to add the perspective of the Synoptic Gospels to Paul’s. In them the Gospel is that Jesus has comes to establish the kingdom of God. I think the Kingdom as Jesus taught it is in fact good news.

            Judgement doesn't have to be bad news. Judgement on sin and removing it may involve some discomfort for us sinners, but we end up better people in a better world.
            Last edited by hedrick; 04-24-2021, 10:38 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am reading the book of Acts, Amplified by choice and like the way the Amplified Bible defines what the Gospel is. It is the good news of the attainment of eternal life, through Christ Jesus in the kingdom of God.

              I also like John 3:16. These are the least "Christianese" ways to tell unbelievers about the good news of Jesus imo.
              Last edited by Esther; 04-24-2021, 01:56 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Esther View Post
                I am reading the book of Acts, Amplified by choice and like the way the Amplified Bible defines what the Gospel is. It is the good news of the attainment of eternal life, through Christ Jesus in the kingdom of God.
                And people spend FAR too much time arguing over what it is than simply sharing it!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Telling people about Jesus in the Power of the Holy Spirit, leaving the results to God.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Esther View Post
                    I am reading the book of Acts, Amplified by choice and like the way the Amplified Bible defines what the Gospel is. It is the good news of the attainment of eternal life, through Christ Jesus in the kingdom of God.

                    I also like John 3:16. These are the least "Christianese" ways to tell unbelievers about the good news of Jesus imo.
                    Eternal life is mistranslated as immortality. Immortality is already guaranteed for every person, both good and bad, the only difference being that the bad people will be in the smoking section. So eternal life must mean something else. It is called chayei olam, a life with permanent results, unlike the futile life, chayei sha'ah, a life resulting in temporary gains, gains that rust and perish. In other words, eternal means everlasting, as in a life with permanent, not temporary, gains. So getting all the nitty gritty about the Gospel is needed, else how will you know what to expect?

                    Interestingly, this life with substance is results from loving God and your neighbour, by picking up your cross every day, so that when you are raised up, people are drawn to God. Bread from heaven. The eponymous act at Calvary, a Wedding Feast.

                    John 15.3Greater love has no one than this, that a person will lay down his life for his friends.

                    The text says the man was blinded so that God's work could be displayed. In other words, God prepared problems so that we could solve them by showcasing God's power in our lives:

                    Ep 2.10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance so that we may walk in them.

                    The ability to pick up crosses and be lifted up comes from entering Rest. So let's not be like the Israelites, who were dismissive about the Kingdom of God:

                    Psalms 78.19Then they spoke against God; They said, “Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?

                    Entering the Kingdom is not an elective option. It's mandatory, because we must be blessings to the world, or face an unfavorable judgment, hear the words from Jesus that He never knew us:

                    Heb 4.1Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it. 2For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.a

                    3Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said:

                    “So I swore on oath in My anger,

                    ‘They shall never enter My rest.’ ”b

                    And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world. 4For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: “And on the seventh day God rested from all His works.”c 5And again, as He says in the passage above: “They shall never enter My rest.”

                    6Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience, 7God again designated a certain day as “Today,” when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”d

                    8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      Eternal life is mistranslated as immortality. Immortality is already guaranteed for every person, both good and bad, the only difference being that the bad people will be in the smoking section. So eternal life must mean something else. It is called chayei olam, a life with permanent results, unlike the futile life, chayei sha'ah, a life resulting in temporary gains, gains that rust and perish. In other words, eternal means everlasting, as in a life with permanent, not temporary, gains. So getting all the nitty gritty about the Gospel is needed, else how will you know what to expect?
                      Eternal life in the kingdom of God. Very clear. John 3:16 is also so clear, needing no further explanation imo.



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Esther View Post

                        Eternal life in the kingdom of God. Very clear. John 3:16 is also so clear, needing no further explanation imo.


                        You are right, but what is the Kingdom of God?

                        John 3.16 is a summarisation, which needs expanding so that it is not misunderstood, by thinking eternal life is not perishing, is immortality.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Christ Our Gospel by Maurice Montgomery The doctrines we preach and love are not mere teachings of some particular method or plan, but the doctrines of Christ, who IS our Gospel; Christ who is sovereign over all flesh; Christ, whose grace is both sovereign and free. Not to preach a sovereign Christ, is to preach another Christ. To preach another Christ is to preach another gospel (which is not another, Galatians 1:6-9). It is just that simple. Mark it down, you cannot separate Christ from the Gospel or the Gospel from Christ, for they are one and the same. Christ is sovereign over all things and over all flesh, giving life freely to whom He will. The message of life for poor guilty sinners is the message of the Christ of God, who saves sovereignly and freely, even the chief of sinners!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Faber View Post
                            What's Good News to one person can be terrifying news to another. The Lord is returning some day. For some that is good news. To others, it will be a dreadful, terrifying event.
                            That ^^^

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                              Christ Our Gospel by Maurice Montgomery The doctrines we preach and love are not mere teachings of some particular method or plan, but the doctrines of Christ, who IS our Gospel; Christ who is sovereign over all flesh; Christ, whose grace is both sovereign and free. Not to preach a sovereign Christ, is to preach another Christ. To preach another Christ is to preach another gospel (which is not another, Galatians 1:6-9). It is just that simple. Mark it down, you cannot separate Christ from the Gospel or the Gospel from Christ, for they are one and the same. Christ is sovereign over all things and over all flesh, giving life freely to whom He will. The message of life for poor guilty sinners is the message of the Christ of God, who saves sovereignly and freely, even the chief of sinners!
                              So Christ is sovereign is the Gospel?

                              See, Gospel is good news, so it should be good news for everybody. But if the Gospel is that Christ is the new boss and He is righteous, then that is bad news for bad people, because now they will be punished.

                              It's like you have a corrupt president in the Phillipines and all the bad guys have a good time. Then a righteous president is elected and he starts punishing all the bad guys, so his getting to be sovereign is bad news for them.

                              The Gospel is not Christ has become sovereign. It is that His blood has cleansed the sanctuary, the Kingdom of God, of which types to be found in the Bible are the Garden, the Promised Land, the Tabernacle, the Temple and Jerusalem.

                              These were just foreshadowing of the Jerusalem from above. Abraham was not happy with the situation he was born in, and wanted a different situation. He did not receive what was promised, because it had yet come, so that only together with us would he enter the Kingdom (Heb 11.40).

                              This sanctuary when entered allowed people to walk with God, just like Adam walked with God, so that through the finger of God, they could also do great works like Moses and persuade people to come to God. In other words, become blessings to the world:

                              John 12.32 Contemporary English Version And if I am lifted up from the earth will make people want to come to me.

                              See this is really good news, and it's for everybody, even sinners. Now they can repent, change their minds, meta noia, and lead a life that results in permanent gains, treasure in heaven, which does not rust or perish.

                              Nothing stops them from benefitting from the good news.
                              Last edited by footwasher; 06-04-2021, 09:14 PM.

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