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Originally posted by foudroyant
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James, Mary's son, tells us to pray for one another and that the prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. Did James forbid his mother to do what he commanded others to do? Did James say to Mary, no, not you, you are not righteous enough or you are above all that because you are my mother, the Queen of heaven, let your subjects do that for you?אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃ -
I ain't the first.
Plenty of citations were given that show since the Lord Jesus is prayed to this is a proof for His Deity.Last edited by foudroyant; 08-16-2014, 07:25 AM.Comment
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The Bible never confuses worship with prayer - That's just a dreamed up definition - though it does say things like "pray in worship" I think.Originally posted by foudroyant View Post1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Oh ok. Cite one passage where prayer is taking place and it is not worship. You tried with Isaiah 44:17 - didn't go so well for you though.Originally posted by tabibito View PostComment
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Show me one person who has used this argument against prayer to the saints.Originally posted by foudroyant View PostDon't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.Comment
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It is good enough for anyone who does not wilfully deny the truth.Originally posted by foudroyant View Post1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛Comment
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Properly used for God alone.Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
Hint: This leaves out all others.
Do I have to define "all" for you here?Comment
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Figured that....your opinion trumps all.Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Blow it somewhere else.Comment
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You haven't shown one piece of evidence stating that worship is prayer - and your claims are in contradictions of dictionary definitions. There is no dictionary that defines worship as prayer, nor is there a dictionary that defines prayer as worship; Humpty Dumpty.Originally posted by foudroyant View Post1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛Comment
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Where does James teach us to pray TO someone other than God?Originally posted by robrecht View PostComment
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Worship: The consciousness of holy presence brings forth a response from those who perceived it. The response is worship and may take many forms. The response may be private and intensely personal, in the form of prayers, confessions, silence, and meditative experiences of various sorts. (Holman Bible Dictionary, Marvin E. Tate)Originally posted by tabibito View Post
http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...iew.cgi?n=6481http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...iew.cgi?n=2948
Nice try.Comment
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I'm not even surprised that you dodged the question. It was fun at first, now it's just boring. Until you're willing to acknowledge, at the very least, how novel your argument is, I'm gonna go spend my time more productively. In the mean time, there is a Catholic Answers piece that explores the etymology and historical definition of the English word "worship." Some here may find it interesting.Originally posted by foudroyant View PostDon't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.Comment
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Those aren't definitions: they're expositions of how worship is expressed.
Just as "bowing down in worship" does not define "bowing down" as "worship".1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛Comment
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He does not, and this is not something I have claimed, but why are you repeatedly avoiding my question about this? It seems as if you want to avoid a genuine conversation. James was one of the leaders of the apostolic churches, which all share this belief that we are united in prayer with all the angels and saints, prayer to God, with and for one another. There's lots of things that were not preserved in the scriptures, the content of the liturgy. Only the words of institution happen to have been preserved in a letter of Paul that he wrote to the Corinthians. But we have much fuller liturgical prayers that have been handed down through the centuries. Most Christians recognize the guidance of the churches by the Spirit through leaders and prophets.Originally posted by foudroyant View Postאָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
You're an idiot. You asserted there is no dictionary...
I supplied two of them.
What did the Lord Jesus call the Temple? --- A house of PRAYER.
Clue up.Comment
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