Praying to Mary is worshiping Mary

[foudroyant]

1. My definition is supported by several dictionaries which I have continually cited. Of course your heresy prevents you from believing them.

2. A blade of grass is a non-deity but if it is prayed to it has become a deity.

[TimelessTheist]

I have a feeling this thread is going to go on for eternity due to foudy's idiocy.

[foudroyant]

This coming from someone who prays to/worships a mythical Mary.

Moron.

[One Bad Pig]

I have a feeling this thread is going to go on for eternity due to foudy's idiocy.

Maybe, maybe not. After explaining my POV for the nth time and getting the same thing back in return, I begin to get bored and my attention starts to wander. I've shown in-thread that "prayer" has a greater semantic range than he alleges (both from Merriam-Webster and citations from the KJV); he then falls back on the Greek, though he has yet to prove that the Greek words behind our beliefs are identical. He alleges that prayer is necessarily worship, but even his favorite source doesn't outright claim that. Proskuneo is not necessarily done to deity, as blueletterbible shows. Presumably he'll ignore that or wave it away, since it does not accord with his assertions.

[foudroyant]

Prayer to a non-deity is non-worship.

This is absurd.



Still waiting for a passage from the Bible where prayer is taking place and it is not worship (See Post #212).
So far the total passages that are in favor of this is zero.

I never asserted that proskuneo had to be done to a deity.

[tabibito]

Maybe, maybe not. After explaining my POV for the nth time and getting the same thing back in return, I begin to get bored and my attention starts to wander. I've shown in-thread that "prayer" has a greater semantic range than he alleges (both from Merriam-Webster and citations from the KJV); he then falls back on the Greek, though he has yet to prove that the Greek words behind our beliefs are identical. He alleges that prayer is necessarily worship, but even his favorite source doesn't outright claim that. Proskuneo is not necessarily done to deity, as blueletterbible shows. Presumably he'll ignore that or wave it away, since it does not accord with his assertions.

Even allowing him his "προσκυνεω is worship of a deity" interpretation, it is demonstrated adequately that proskuneo is not the only form that prayer takes.
Even when we pretend that his misinterpretation of his gospel according to the hosts** is valid, his argument still fails.
(** In reality, these say no more than "In the Bible, proskuneo is used only with respect to deities" - he seems to think that the meaning doesn't change when "in the Bible" is eliminated from the sentence.)

[foudroyant]

I never asserted proskuneo must always be worship of a deity.


Still waiting for a passage from the Bible where prayer is taking place and it is not worship (See Post #212).
So far the total passages that are in favor of this is zero.
You and others are now official Grand Poo-Bah's of the ZERO CLUB.

[foudroyant]

OPB's praying to a non-deity is non-worship just bit the dust.

Still no refutation to this:

Prayer: But you, when you PRAY, go into your inner room, close your door and PRAY to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. (Matthew 6:6, NASB, emphasis mine)

Worship: TDNT: He who penetrates all things regulates WORSHIP, Mt. 6:4, 6, 18 (5:991, Pater, Schrenk, emphasis mine).

Prayer is worship.


Go ahead people, I'm waiting for the next stupid argument that you have.

[One Bad Pig]

I made a club!

[tabibito]

I made a club!

Does it have a nice pointy spike through it?

[foudroyant]

Yes, the spike goes right to the heart of the gospel.

[TimelessTheist]

OPB's praying to a non-deity is non-worship just bit the dust.

Still no refutation to this:

Prayer: But you, when you PRAY, go into your inner room, close your door and PRAY to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. (Matthew 6:6, NASB, emphasis mine)

Worship: TDNT: He who penetrates all things regulates WORSHIP, Mt. 6:4, 6, 18 (5:991, Pater, Schrenk, emphasis mine).

Prayer is worship.


Go ahead people, I'm waiting for the next stupid argument that you have.

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. In your case, this is posting the same stupid argument over and over again, hoping we won't remember it was refuted twenty pages ago.

[tabibito]

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. In your case, this is posting the same stupid argument over and over again, hoping we won't remember it was refuted twenty pages ago.

So.... trying to get Foudroyant to see reason would be .....

[foudroyant]

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. In your case, this is posting the same stupid argument over and over again, hoping we won't remember it was refuted twenty pages ago.

And yet you couldn't even cite the post......



In fact, 20 pages ago in Post #240 I asked Mr. Tab to supply evidence for his assertion in Post #239 that the RCC does not render proseuchomai unto Mary. Later in Post #245 I asked for their official teaching on this and to this moment he has provided nothing.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ng-Mary/page24

So much for his pathetic assertion.

[tabibito]

You are the one claiming that Rome promotes proseuxomai of Mary, Fouodroyant.
It is up to you to provide evidence that your claim has foundation in fact. The failure to do so puts you at risk of being a slanderer. Even if your claim is true, you are making the claim without evidence in support.
By your own definition, proseuxomai is prayer to a god. That definition may be inaccurate - your citations show no more than that proseuxomai is only used in that sense in the Bible - Whether it may have other uses outside the Bible is not addressed. Your definition may in fact be accurate - but you haven't produced anything in support of that assertion either.
Rome denies that Mary is a god(dess). By your definition, proseuxomai can only be given to someone that is regarded as a god.
It is impossible by your own definition for proseuxomai to be directed to someone that is not regarded as a god.