Originally posted by Cerebrum123
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Is Creation Ex Nihilo Biblical?
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI was too harsh here, but it's too late to edit. I'm sorry. However, I'm not going to be continuing on this subject with you, or likely anyone else. All I get is either blatant misrepresentation(not you), or lots of condescension. I'm treated as someone not worth dealing with, and below those I've interacted with. You do this very clearly with your last sentence in your most recent post. It gets me too upset dealing with this kind of thing. It's not good for me, and that means I need to just stay out of certain areas. Again, sorry.
I'm willing to go with whatever sounds most reasonable. I'm very open to accepting that I may be wrong about my views, in fact, though I currently hold closest to the Historical Creationist perspective, I hold to a modified version of the view (for instance, Sailhammer doesn't believe that there's any room for evolution in Historical Creationism, but I don't see any reason to come to that conclusion).
I infer (perhaps wrongly) from reading your posts that you're not quite as open on the subject, and that you believe having alternative theories is not at all good.
As an OECists (and probably unlike many OECists) I'm not violently opposed to YECism. I think there are many decent arguments for YECism, though I currently don't find them strong enough to sway me from my current perspective. Perhaps in the future though, who knows.
Also, and I believe I've said this before, what you, or others may misconstrue as condescension in the tone of my posts is very often not intentional. I tend to be very blunt, which I'm sure comes off as condescension, but is in fact just how I talk, and is not how I'm personally internalizing the dialogue. This has gotten me in trouble a few times in real life as well, especially with girlfriends. I'm still learning to find ways of expressing my thoughts with tact. Unfortunately it doesn't always come easy.Last edited by Adrift; 12-31-2015, 11:58 AM.
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Originally posted by Adrift View Post
Also, and I believe I've said this before, what you, or others may misconstrue as condescension in the tone of my posts is very often not intentional. I tend to be very blunt, which I'm sure comes off as condescension, but is in fact just how I talk, and is not how I'm personally internalizing the dialogue. This has gotten me in trouble a few times in real life as well, especially with girlfriends. I'm still learning to find ways of expressing my thoughts with tact. Unfortunately it doesn't always come easy."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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I suppose I might as well wade into another ex nihilo topic lol.
First, to the point that Genesis 1:1 describes the initial creation. My understanding is that it summarizes the whole account instead. I think it does imply by extension that God created the water, but it's fair to say that it doesn't explicitly state it. But there are passages that say God created everything.
To the topic question directly -- I think the Bible teaches that God didn't create from what I called (in the other topic) an "eternal external". And that everything that exists comes from God. But I don't think that those who use "ex nihilo" to describe this mean "nothing" in a literal sense (or not those who are logical among them :P). I think they're using a narrower scope of the definition of "thing". Which makes sense because I think this goes along with the start of linear time, space, and matter, and existence prior to this is extremely different than what we normally think of as things. But isn't nonexistence (since those who hold this view clearly believe God is there). Basically, the realm itself that "things" are in was itself created.
The analogies I used in the other topic were of a virtual world in a computer with new virtual atoms/objects being instantiated inside them (not rearranged from previously existing atoms/objects), and a braille machine, which makes new dots. Ex nihilo may be a useful term to describe this and differentiate from normal reshaping of existing "things in the normal sense". (But it might be too confusing to be useful; unsure.)
To get this from the Bible, though, I think you need to deduce things from a wide variety of passages, not just one place. Which I'd like to someday do in a whole-Bible survey on the subject, but no time at the moment. :(
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