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Is Mark 16:9-20 authentic?
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNot just me, but most of the body of Christ until the 19th century when this "correction" came again to light.Last edited by robrecht; 02-17-2014, 11:51 AM.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by 37818 View Postאָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostAnd this as possibility is rooted in the denial that Mark 16:9-20 is NOT part of the original gospel.
Let's look at that.
καὶ ἐξελθοῦσαι ταχὺ ἔφυγον ἀπὸ τοῦ μνημείου εἶχεν δὲ αὐτὰς τρόμος καὶ ἔκστασις καὶ οὐδενὶ οὐδὲν εἶπον, ἐφοβοῦντο γὰρ
And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any [man]; for they were afraid.
Ἀναστὰς δὲ πρωῒ πρώτῃ σαββάτου ἐφάνη πρῶτον Μαρίᾳ τῇ Μαγδαληνῇ ἀφ᾽ ἡς ἐκβεβλήκει ἑπτὰ δαιμόνια
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
What is the difficulty? Explain.
You can look images of the manuscript here.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostYour attachment does not work and arguing by weblink is not allowed here.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe attachment does work. Right click on it. The link is merely the source for the attached image.
"vBulletin Message: Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator."אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIf you're going to dogmatically hold to "my view is right" and "all other views assume mine is wrong, so they can be lumped together" then dialogue is not going to be very fruitful. <snip>.Last edited by 37818; 02-17-2014, 12:16 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View Postאָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostDo you post anything knowing you are really wrong? I think not. Those who oppose the authenticity of the Mark 16:9-20, do so believing [in their view knowing] the evidence supports that view. In which case the're right, and I'm wrong.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostReading your link here, the position taken is merely that Scribe D was aware of the longer ending and left room for it to be added later if a later scribe chose to do so. This position does not seem to support your earlier view that there was a redaction apparently to remove Mk 16,9-20. This is one of the reasons why arguing by weblink is not a good practice. We cannot be sure what opinion you are trying to advance here. Knowledge of the longer ending is hardly problematic. The choice to include it or both endings and even to comment on them makes sense without necessarily endorsing the view that either the shorter or longer endings were authentic.
Dr Pickering had argued:Now when I looked as the Codex Sinaiticus I saw the longer blank column than that of Codex Vaticanus. And that was not being mentioned. Note on that link, the one column has more letters not less. Supporting the notion that the the replacement of the 4 pages were to allow for the Mark 16:9-20 reading, not its removal.Last edited by 37818; 02-17-2014, 02:15 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI generally post from the POV I believe to be correct, but I am open to being persuaded that I am not. I am not so presumptuous as to assume that I have a monopoly on the truth.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostIt works for you but not for others. This is a known problem that has not yet been fixed. I get the following message:
"vBulletin Message: Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Even if it can be proven that Mark 16:9-20 is an added revision, not of the original. It is, as I see it, to have been proven that Mark 16:9-20 was existent prior to any of the now existent mss which omit it.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostEven if it can be proven that Mark 16:9-20 is an added revision, not of the original. It is, as I see it, to have been proven that Mark 16:9-20 was existent prior to any of the now existent mss which omit it.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostI had argued what I argued in good faith. I'm not adverse to admitting being wrong where I can see I am wrong.
Dr Pickering had argued:Now when I looked as the Codex Sinaiticus I saw the longer blank column than that of Codex Vaticanus. And that was not being mentioned. Note on that link, the one column has more letters not less. Supporting the notion that the the replacement of the 4 pages were to allow for the Mark 16:9-20 reading, not its removal.
Tischendorf, who discovered Codex Aleph, warned that the folded sheet containing the end of Mark and the beginning of
Luke appeared to be written by a different hand and with different ink than the rest of the manuscript. However that may be,
a careful scrutiny reveals the following: the end of Mark and beginning of Luke occur on page 3 (of the four); pages 1 and 4
contain an average of 17 lines of printed Greek text per column (there are four columns per page), just like the rest of the
codex; page 2 contains an average of 15.5 lines of printed text per column (four columns); the first column of page 3
contains only twelve lines of printed text and in this way verse 8 occupies the top of the second column, the rest of which is
blank (except for some designs); Luke begins at the top of column 3, which contains 16 lines of printed text while column 4
is back up to 17 lines. On page 2 the forger began to spread out the letters, displacing six lines of printed text; in the first
column of page 3 he got desperate and displaced five lines of printed text, just in one column!
In this way he managed to get two lines of verse 8 over onto the second column, avoiding the telltale vacant column
(as in Codex B). That second column would accommodate 15 more lines of printed text, which with the other eleven make
26. Verses 9-20 occupy 23.5 such lines, so there is plenty of room for them. It really does seem that there has been foul
play, and there would have been no need for it unless the first hand did in fact display the disputed verses. In any event,
Aleph as it stands is a forgery (in this place) and therefore may not legitimately be alleged as evidence against them.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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