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Is Mark 16:9-20 authentic?

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  • #31
    A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by Bruce Metzger

    From Bruce Metzger's A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament:
    k), the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, about one hundred Armenian manuscripts, and the two oldest Georgian manuscripts (written a.d. 897 and a.d. 913). Clement of Alexandria and Origen show no knowledge of the existence of these verses; furthermore Eusebius and Jerome attest that the passage was absent from almost all Greek copies of Mark known to them. The original form of the Eusebian sections (drawn up by Ammonius) makes no provision for numbering sections of the text after 16.8. Not a few manuscripts that contain the passage have scribal notes stating that older Greek copies lack it, and in other witnesses the passage is marked with asterisks or obeli, the conventional signs used by copyists to indicate a spurious addition to a document.

    (2) Several witnesses, including four uncial Greek manuscripts of the seventh, eighth, and ninth centuries (L Ψ 099 0112 alkalboms ethmost msssuppc, dsupp, l, o, q vg syrp, pal al, it was thought appropriate to enclose them within square brackets.

    16.19 κύριος Ἰησοῦς {C}

    Among the several titles applied to Jesus by the Church, the use of κύριος standing alone appears to be a later development, more solemn than κύριος Ἰησοῦς.

    16.20 σημείων. {B}

    On the addition of ἀμήν in most witnesses, see the comment on Mt 28.20.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      The majority of manuscripts have Mark 16:9-20. The vast majority. Only a very few of manuscripts omit it. Read that PDF I linked to.
      What this means is that the text became standardized over the first several centuries, after which time the great majority of manuscripts through the middle ages reflected this standardized text for the most part up until the invention of the printing press and the first printed New Testament in the 16th century. That's an awful lot of manuscripts but the sheer number of these manuscripts over some thousand years is not really important in and of itself. Much more important is the development of a hypothetical tree that best explains the origin of all the different readings. Most meaningful variants developed relatively quickly so the age of a manuscript, in and of itself, is also not necessarily the most important criterion. Early and wide geographic representation of a reading can be important and in this case it is the strongest argument in favor of the longer reading. But the strongest arguments for a given reading are, in my opinion, internal consistency with an author's style and explanatory power to make plausible the development of the other variants.
      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        The majority of manuscripts have Mark 16:9-20. The vast majority. Only a very few of manuscripts omit it. Read that PDF I linked to.
        Originally posted by robrecht View Post
        What this means is that the text became standardized over the first several centuries, after which time the great majority of manuscripts through the middle ages reflected this standardized text for the most part up until the invention of the printing press and the first printed New Testament in the 16th century. That's an awful lot of manuscripts but the sheer number of these manuscripts over some thousand years is not really important in and of itself. Much more important is the development of a hypothetical tree that best explains the origin of all the different readings. Most meaningful variants developed relatively quickly so the age of a manuscript, in and of itself, is also not necessarily the most important criterion. Early and wide geographic representation of a reading can be important and in this case it is the strongest argument in favor of the longer reading. But the strongest arguments for a given reading are, in my opinion, internal consistency with an author's style and explanatory power to make plausible the development of the other variants.


        Succinctly brilliant.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Not a valid argument. Since the non variant New Testament text, as a whole, constitutes the majority text as well.
          See Robrecht's response.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Thanks as usual for the lesson.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              What this means is that the text became standardized over the first several centuries, after which time the great majority of manuscripts through the middle ages reflected this standardized text for the most part up until the invention of the printing press and the first printed New Testament in the 16th century. That's an awful lot of manuscripts but the sheer number of these manuscripts over some thousand years is not really important in and of itself. Much more important is the development of a hypothetical tree that best explains the origin of all the different readings. Most meaningful variants developed relatively quickly so the age of a manuscript, in and of itself, is also not necessarily the most important criterion. Early and wide geographic representation of a reading can be important and in this case it is the strongest argument in favor of the longer reading. But the strongest arguments for a given reading are, in my opinion, internal consistency with an author's style and explanatory power to make plausible the development of the other variants.
              It is either really the word of God or it is NOT. If it is not, God is not very good at keeping His word.

              Now in saying this, I am by no means an inerrant interpreter, nor is anyone else for that matter.

              The long reading is nevertheless older than the Cpdex Vaticanus or Codex Sinaiticus for that matter.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                It is either really the word of God or it is NOT. If it is not, God is not very good at keeping His word.
                Perhaps it is our expectations of God that need examination?
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by John Reece View Post


                  Succinctly brilliant.
                  Succinctly false, in my book.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Perhaps it is our expectations of God that need examination?
                    So are you saying I do not know God? (John 17:3?)
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      So are you saying I do not know God? (John 17:3?)


                      I fully admit I do not fully know God.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Succinctly false, in my book.
                        So, 37 -- may I call you 37? -- I admit sometimes I just skim, and don't read as deeply as I should, so lemme just ask point blank.... Are you suggesting you're pretty much 100% certain that the "long ending" is supposed to be part of the Scripture? (I don't want to misconstrue your position)
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          So are you saying I do not know God? (John 17:3?)
                          No. That is absolutely putting words in my mouth that I did not say, or did not come close to saying.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            No. That is absolutely putting words in my mouth that I did not say, or did not come close to saying.
                            I'll say it! I don't think he FULLY knows God, and the verse cited was Jesus talking to His Father about the people knowing the "true God" as opposed to the many false Gods. I don't think it implied "fully knowing".
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              Succinctly false, in my book.
                              Does the text need to be from the original author to be inspired of God?
                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                It is either really the word of God or it is NOT. If it is not, God is not very good at keeping His word.
                                Is it your view that God in his Providence does not allow there to be scribal alterations in the text transmission process?
                                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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