Who is a Christian?

[37818]

Those who choose to serve Christ are saved

Rather, those who are saved choose to serve Christ.

[Cow Poke]

CHRISTIANS are Christians! Peoples is peoples!

[One Bad Pig]

Sproul says there are people who believe they are saved, but those around them seriously doubt it.

These are people who have been baptised:

Romans 10:9If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

They have faith but have no fruit so you can't say that situation cannot exist.



Again there are people like I have described, who have faith and believe a strange doctrine that they will eventually and inevitably produce fruit.

So will my faith inevitably produce fruit?



It says this:
"For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

What does worrying about provision for sustaining the physical body, an exercise condemned by Scripture, have to do with examining myself, which is approved by Scripture?



Not true. This passage shows that if a person in the deepest jungle, does not have faith in Christ, through no fault of his own but because he has not heard of Christ, because he has not been preached to, but who does good works, will be found law abiding on the Day of Judgment:

Romans 2:14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

And Jesus could not have offered an unblemished sacrifice. He put to death ALL the desires of the body BEFORE he offered it on the Cross. We are taught to be like Him, as we cannot share in what remains of His afflictions if we cannot do the same.



Rather its an indication about the incoherence of Calvinism. It requires a check to be made for bad fruit, when scripture says there are NO checks against ANY fruit:

Galatians 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.



I think I have clarified the view. There is no such thing as false fruit.



However, we have the gift of the Spirit.



Not so. God does not save unless we put to death the desires of the body through the gift of the Spirit. That is why Paul thanks God. Because of the gift.



Has the Spirit confirmed it to you through words yet? Rather is it not those who are LED by God to put to death the desires of the flesh who are confirmed to be sons of God?

Romans 8:12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Encapsulated
Those who believe that Christ has removed the curse of the law are saved

Those who are free are saved

Those who know they can choose to serve sin and die, or choose to serve Christ and live are saved

Those who choose to serve Christ are saved

Before I answer this (as I don't have time at the moment), I'd like you to answer this: Do YOU still sin? If yes, does that mean you are not saved?

[footwasher]

Before I answer this (as I don't have time at the moment), I'd like you to answer this: Do YOU still sin? If yes, does that mean you are not saved?

My spirit has already been made alive and is now with Christ in high places (Eph 2:6). Israel wandered in the desert for 40 years but their sandals never wore out. Gods gifts and calling can never be revoked.

Now our bodies remain to be made alive through putting to death the desires of the flesh. Those who continually put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit are without sin. It's an attitude, not a state:

1 Peter4:1Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

[One Bad Pig]

My spirit has already been made alive and is now with Christ in high places (Eph 2:6). Israel wandered in the desert for 40 years but their sandals never wore out. Gods gifts and calling can never be revoked.

Now our bodies remain to be made alive through putting to death the desires of the flesh. Those who continually put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit are without sin. It's an attitude, not a state:

1 Peter4:1Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

So you... refuse to acknowledge your sin?

Are you better than Paul, who said, "Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief"? (1 Tim 1:15)

Are the words of James not in your canon?

Source: James 5:16a

Confess your trespasses to one another...

© Copyright Original Source

It seems our views are mutually incompatible. I see little further point in continuing this, because there is no arguing with the blind who do not wish to see (John 9:41).

[footwasher]

So you... refuse to acknowledge your sin?

Are you better than Paul, who said, "Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief"? (1 Tim 1:15)

Are the words of James not in your canon?

Source: James 5:16a

Confess your trespasses to one another...

© Copyright Original Source

It seems our views are mutually incompatible. I see little further point in continuing this, because there is no arguing with the blind who do not wish to see (John 9:41).

Contrast the statements:

Whilst in this body, to receive a better resurrection, a resurrection that will affect both our spirits and our bodies, that will avoid the consignation of our bodies to hell:

• We are required to share in Christ's work of being a sin offering (proved with Scripture)
• We are required to be unblemished to be acceptable offerings (proved with Scripture)
• We are required to suffer to be unblemished (proved with Scripture)

with the incoherent statement:


We will be perfected after we are resurrected (unsupported by Scripture).

[One Bad Pig]

Contrast the statements:

Whilst in this body, to receive a better resurrection, a resurrection that will affect both our spirits and our bodies, that will avoid the consignation of our bodies to hell:

• We are required to share in Christ's work of being a sin offering (proved with Scripture)
• We are required to be unblemished to be acceptable offerings (proved with Scripture)
• We are required to suffer to be unblemished (proved with Scripture)

with the incoherent statement:


We will be perfected after we are resurrected (unsupported by Scripture).

...your sin remains. You can't represent what I've posted here correctly, let alone scripture.

[footwasher]

...your sin remains. You can't represent what I've posted here correctly, let alone scripture.

Here you say the sanctification of the body is a future event:

Quote

OBP wrote:
That's talking about the future!

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post158472

[Cow Poke]

Here you say the sanctification of the body person is a future event:

I say it's an ongoing process.

[One Bad Pig]

Here you say the sanctification of the body is a future event:

Quote

OBP wrote:
That's talking about the future!

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post158472

In which I am referring to scripture. IOW, my statement is nether incoherent nor unsupported by scripture. Further, why will we all be changed at the resurrection if we're already perfected then (1 Cor 15:35-54)?

And I agree with the poker of cows that sanctification is an ongoing process.

[footwasher]

In which I am referring to scripture. IOW, my statement is nether incoherent nor unsupported by scripture. Further, why will we all be changed at the resurrection if we're already perfected then (1 Cor 15:35-54)?

And I agree with the poker of cows that sanctification is an ongoing process.

Did the Israelites murmur when faced with lifethreatening shortage of water?

Was it not God training/ testing them?

Did they not reveal their true colors, their disloyalty to do whatever God asked of them, promised to God at Sinai, at the time of taking on the Canaanites?

Did Joshua and Caleb not put to death ALL the desires of the flesh, including preservation of life and go forward into battle?

Did Jesus not put to death ALL the desires of the flesh, including preservation of life and go forward into battle?


Hebrews 10: 32But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

37FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,
HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

38BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

39But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Were all the obedient not rewarded with rest, Joshua with rest from his enemies, Jesus with rest from desires of the flesh?

1 Corinthians 15:42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

Heavens, man, how are the saints able to intercede in high places without being sanctified on earth? We can't share in what remains of Christ's afflictions unless we become unblemished like him.

Colossians 1:24Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body

2 Corinthians 6:4 but as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: by great endurance, in afflictions, hardships, calamities

[Cow Poke]

And I agree with the poker of cows that sanctification is an ongoing process.

Actually, I should have said it SHOULD be an ongoing process.

[37818]

Actually, I should have said it SHOULD be an ongoing process.

Actually sanctification precedes our faith in Christ. (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14.)

[Cow Poke]

Actually sanctification precedes our faith in Christ. (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14.)

I don't think those verses are saying what you think they're saying, but I can't know that, because you're not really saying what you're saying they say.

Hesitations 2:15

[One Bad Pig]

Did the Israelites murmur when faced with lifethreatening shortage of water?

Was it not God training/ testing them?
<snip rest>

None of this addresses my post in any way; it ignores it in favor of pushing your own private interpretation.