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Jesus Was Crucified Because Disciples Were Armed, Bible Analysis Suggests
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If, just for the hypothetical sake of argument, it turned out that Jesus did intentionally arm his disciples to provoke his arrest... I don't see why concluding this would be anti-supernatural bias or anything of the like. Jesus knew what the plan was for him; that was the point of him praying so intensely in Gethsemane. God can and does use "natural" processes to bring about his work.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostThat's just Jesus telling Peter he'll get himself killed. It's not a decree or even a literal statement since not everyone who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
What do you mean "supposedly"? What do you think Peter was trying to do with the sword? Open a sushi restaurant?
And there's nothing interesting about that, Peter was motivated by base, human concerns for his friend. So when Jesus was there and in danger Peter had fighting spirit. That spirit faltered when he was left on his own. It's an entirely normal human reaction.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIIRC it wasn't uncommon at all for people to carry weapons in order to defend themselves against attacks by bandits while traveling (like from Galilee to Jerusalem).
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Originally posted by apostoli View PostOops on my part. A grand typo on my part!!!!. But if you or KingsGambit had any Biblical sensibility (intelligence), you would have corrected me and pointed me to the correct chapter for the verse I directly quoted as opposed to your desire/s to grandstand!!! The text is Mt 26:52, but I'd point out that in your interrogation you missed the point of Jesus' comment...and my comment.
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Originally posted by Jesse View Post
Well this is certainly an interesting way of looking at things. I do disagree with Paula Fredriksen on one thing. The word machaira can be used for both "knife" and "sword". They probably were more akin to daggers.
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Originally posted by apostoli View PostAn interesting observation: At Mt 56:52 we learn that on commanding Peter to put away his sword Jesus decreed "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword".
A more interesting observation: The same fellow that drew his sword (Peter) to supposedly defend Jesus, was prone to deny Jesus when his own existence was threatened.
And there's nothing interesting about that, Peter was motivated by base, human concerns for his friend. So when Jesus was there and in danger Peter had fighting spirit. That spirit faltered when he was left on his own. It's an entirely normal human reaction.
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Originally posted by apostoli View PostOf interest to me is why there are so many protestant ministers coming out of American seminaries who in pursuing their "qualifications" ignore what is plainly written in scripture and pursue absolute bull excrement????
I'd lay odds that most people who pursue a Religious Studies degree are not Christians, let alone aspiring ministers.
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Originally posted by apostoli View PostOops on my part. A grand typo on my part!!!!. But if you had any Biblical sensibility (intelligence), you would have corrected me to the correct chapter for the verse I directly quoted as opposed to your desire to grandstand!!! The text is Mt 26:52, but I'd point out that in your interrogation you missed the point of Jesus' comment...and my comment.Last edited by robrecht; 10-29-2014, 10:57 AM.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostVery interesting indeed! My Bible is missing some 30 chapters of the gospel of Matthew!Last edited by apostoli; 10-29-2014, 10:37 AM.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI think what he means is that why make up theories about why Jesus was killed when it's told to us in the gospels? Nothing about his disciples being armed was brought up as a charge, therefore we have to disregard historical reliability of scripture and make up theories outside of scripture.
A more interesting observation: The same fellow that drew his sword (Peter) to supposedly defend Jesus, was prone to deny Jesus when his own existence was threatened. Possibly why Jesus at one time chastised Peter saying "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." (Mt 16:23).
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI think what he means is that why make up theories about why Jesus was killed when it's told to us in the gospels? Nothing about his disciples being armed was brought up as a charge, therefore we have to disregard historical reliability of scripture and make up theories outside of scripture.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostWhat?
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Originally posted by apostoli View PostOf interest to me is why there are so many protestant ministers coming out of American seminaries who in pursuing their "qualifications" ignore what is plainly written in scripture and pursue absolute bull excrement????
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Originally posted by Jesse View PostI am not sure. I do not know much about the pacifist argument for his arrest. Though Christ's commandment to carry swords wouldn't have provoked the Romans because it was legal for citizens to be armed.
Of interest to me is why there are so many protestant ministers coming out of American seminaries who in pursuing their "qualifications" ignore what is plainly written in scripture and pursue absolute bull excrement????
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