Originally posted by Chrawnus
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Spiritual Gifts
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostWell, one way that such a judgement could be made, is by fellow members in Christ, either individually, or larger groups within the congregation, maybe even the congregation as a whole. If someone seems to have a propensity for correctly understanding and interpreting scripture, and this propensity is taken notice of by the congregation, or someone in the congregation, it might not be a bad thing for these people to maybe encourage said person to take steps for this gift to grow, and to take on a role in the the congregation where this gift serves it's function best.
This is not to say that someone couldn't make the judgement themselves of where their gifts would best serve the body, but that sometimes a little outside perspective can be helpful in making a correct judgement.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd, there's not a black and white line, I don't think, between "gifts" and "talents" and "abilities" ---- I think the MAIN point is that these be used to edify the body, and not for self aggrandizement.
I DO think it's important for Christians to consider that God HAS given them at least one of the spiritual gifts mentioned, and they should seek to discover what that/those gift(s) is/are.
I think this is something that is sorely lacking in the Body.
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostA spiritual gift to me would be something we do for God and for the mission of Christ.
I always thought that God wanted to me be an apologist for Christianity and to take the Gospel to Muslims.
God did it by tricking me into actually reading the Bible in order to help me know Him and His Messiah, Jesus.
Perhaps I was chosen because I study hard and I never give up.
I also try to educate Christians who interpret the Scriptures wrong. I don't care if they like me or not for doing so. I can be gentle about it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI do think every Christian has been given spiritual gifts in order to build up the body. Sometimes these can be as "simple" (not in power, but in expression) as the gift of persevering prayer/intercession, which I do not think every Christian necessarily has. Every Christian can and should pray and intercess for others, but I think for some this prayer/intercession is their special calling.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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On a side note, I once had a man visit our Church who, after the morning service, approached me to inform me that HIS gift was .... and pay attention to the uppity way he pronounced it.....
I have the spiritual gift of PASTOR Corr-RECK-tor! I wanted to ask him where that was in the Bible, but I just smiled and nodded and thanked him for letting me know.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Another thing I'm considering, is that while I do not think that the Spirit ever ceases giving his gifts to the Body (i.e I'm not a complete cessationist), I do wonder if sometimes some particular gifts are not given, especially the ones that have supernatural expression, either because there is no need for them in that particular congregation, and they would not serve to build up the body in that particular instance, or because they would actually serve to severely harm the unity of the body (i.e if someone gets prideful over getting a gift that is supernatural in expression because they wrongfully think those gifts are more worth than the more "mundane" gifts and discord is sown in the body because of that). So maybe some gifts, while perhaps not ceasing altogether in the Christian Body, do not show up in particular instances (congregations) of that Body, either because they are not needed, or because they would tear down more than they would build up.
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostAnd if one has been a Christian long enough, said gifts may look like personality traits. I do wonder if dome might have a knack for learning new languages or be really competent in the medical field and that actually be the gift of toungues or healing for our time and place. Not saying the Holy Spirit will or won't still provife miracles through believers, just that we have more resources than the early Christians did. A miracle does sound more effective though.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostAnother thing I'm considering, is that while I do not think that the Spirit ever ceases giving his gifts to the Body (i.e I'm not a complete cessationist), I do wonder if sometimes some particular gifts are not given, especially the ones that have supernatural expression, either because there is no need for them in that particular congregation, and they would not serve to build up the body in that particular instance, or because they would actually serve to severely harm the unity of the body (i.e if someone gets prideful over getting a gift that is supernatural in expression because they wrongfully think those gifts are more worth than the more "mundane" gifts and discord is sown in the body because of that). So maybe some gifts, while perhaps not ceasing altogether in the Christian Body, do not show up in particular instances (congregations) of that Body, either because they are not needed, or because they would tear down more than they would build up.
That's also why I think that, over time, our spiritual gift(s) may change, depending on the needs of the congregation.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post....So maybe some gifts, while perhaps not ceasing altogether in the Christian Body, do not show up in particular instances (congregations) of that Body, either because they are not needed, or because they would tear down more than they would build up.
AND, while we're on this subject ---- it just bugs me to no end that one of the main purposes for the HOLY SPIRIT is UNITY, but we seem to be in more fights about the Holy Spirit and the Gifts than we do a lot of other things.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm thinking a little beyond that, in that God, through His Spirit, is equipping us to serve the body. I think we can do a lot of "nice things" for others that are not necessarily our "Gift", but I think that each of us, as Christians, has at least one spiritual gift with which we should serve the Body.
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostTeaching is a spiritual gift.
On the other hand, just "knowing stuff" and disseminating it isn't necessarily a spiritual gift. Like a history teacher who just seems to be in "auto pilot" mode, droning on about dates and names and facts... I don't think that's a gift at all. Now, being able to make the student WANT to learn those dates and names and facts -- that may be a horse of a different color!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWe are very much on the same page here.... the "giftedness" of the members is, in my understanding, depending on the needs of the congregation. If we were to understand that God may be adding people to our congregation because of their spiritual gift(s), and we recognized that and allowed them to be used...
That's also why I think that, over time, our spiritual gift(s) may change, depending on the needs of the congregation.
Not every congregation necessarily has every gift of the Spirit, just as not every individual member in a congregation has every gift, or even every gift that is manifested in that particular congregation. It might be presumptuous of me, but maybe 1 Cor 12:4-11 can be read in a "congregationalist" way too, and not just in an "individualist" way? Just as the individual are not given every gift, but the Spirit decides which gifts to give to best build up the congregation, maybe the Spirit also decides what particular gifts to bestow on congregations as a whole, in order that they might best serve the benefit of other congregations, and so build up the Body of Christ as a whole?
Of course, I might be completely out of my depth here, so if this seems to be contrary to what Scripture teaches I'm welcome to correction on this.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
Not every congregation necessarily has every gift of the Spirit, just as not every individual member in a congregation has every gift, or even every gift that is manifested in that particular congregation. It might be presumptuous of me, but maybe 1 Cor 12:4-11 can be read in a "congregationalist" way too, and not just in an "individualist" way? Just as the individual are not given every gift, but the Spirit decides which gifts to give to best build up the congregation, maybe the Spirit also decides what particular gifts to bestow on congregations as a whole, in order that they might best serve the benefit of other congregations, and so build up the Body of Christ as a whole?
Of course, I might be completely out of my depth here, so if this seems to be contrary to what Scripture teaches I'm welcome to correction on this.
It reminds me of something Henry Blackaby said...... (paraphrasing)... If you want to see where God is leading your Church, watch the people he adds to your congregation, and take note of their talents, abilities and spiritual gifts....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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