Announcement
Collapse
An objection against Marian devotion dealt with.
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostWe do see similarities: she's crowned queen along with her son
Solomon didn't say no to Bathsheba just as Jesus never says no to Mary, people bring requests to Solomon and she succours them.
All I can conclude is that you're twisting Scripture just to prop up your own view.
-
Mark 10
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Obsidian View PostMark 10
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Paprika View PostBathsheba is crowned queen?
Solomon does say yes at first, but then later rejects her request.
And only one instance is recorded of Bathsheba interceding for one person.
All I can conclude is that you're twisting Scripture just to prop up your own view.
This thread is about one response that comes up a lot 'Mary doesn't need to intercede for us', more especially in the context of this passage.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostQueen mother to be more precise, my bad.
That's hardly twisting scriptures, it would be if I was claiming that things happened that didn't, or the words meant something they didn't. As it stands I think you're the one failing to realise the implications of what's written. However as I said in the beginning I will not make a positive defence of Mariology here.
1) Claiming that Bathsheba was crowned - whether as queen or queen mother, it is not recorded that it happened
2) Claiming that Solomon "didn't say no to Bathsheba" - he does say no emphatically later, with a rather harsh rebuke
I don't think its a stretch, without basing all of Mariology on it, that Bathsheba showed us the role Mary would play.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Paprika View PostShe is crowned queen mother?
1) Claiming that Bathsheba was crowned - whether as queen or queen mother, it is not recorded that it happened2) Claiming that Solomon "didn't say no to Bathsheba" - he does say no emphatically later, with a rather harsh rebukeScripture is pretty clear that Jesus would be and was like many people in certain respects: Moses, David, Solomon are key examples. It doesn't say that about Mary.
I don't have to say more in response to it than that, however we know that God patterns things on the way he did things in the past: The Exodus becomes a prefiguration of baptism and conversion; The Final Judgement is prefigured in Sodom and Gomorra. Even the destruction of the Jewish temple in year 70AD was prefigured.
And again, this isn't the point of this thread. I opened with this to give context to an objection to Mariology I keep hearing. I assume you have no problem with that rebuttal.Last edited by Leonhard; 05-18-2014, 07:27 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostThat's what Bathsheba is. This isn't controversial.
I need to understand the kind of objection you're trying to make... if something isn't directly mentioned in the Bible, then we can call it into question?
I quoted that at the beginning. You'd have to draw the phrasing 'and sat on his right' into question. However there's no independent reason to assume that the it meant anything different in this context. If Bathsheba sat there, then she held a queen title of authority, which is what it always means when in the Bible someone is asked to sit at the right hand. The same with Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father, being our Lord or lords.
This amounts to an argument from silence. There's no biblical principle, and the bible never states that only those things which the apostles mentioned as prefigurations are exclusively those things.
And again, this isn't the point of this thread.
Which is why the first half was expounding on the supposed Bathsheba-Mary typology.
In response to your edit:
However there's no part of this where he rebukes her. He simple looks through Adonisja's subterfuge and executes him.Last edited by Paprika; 05-18-2014, 07:35 AM.
Comment
-
I missed this earlier.
Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
Why is this relevant?Last edited by Paprika; 05-18-2014, 07:37 AM.
Comment
-
There was no crowning.
I don't dispute that it is a position of honour, but I would like to see evidence that it would necessarily connote a position of power.
Originally posted by Paprika View PostWhich is why the first half was expounding on the supposed Bathsheba-Mary typology.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostHow do you know that?
What does 'sit at my right hand' mean? Does it have a different meaning here, than what it usually does?
Comment
-
Originally posted by Paprika View PostI missed this earlier.
Because you earlier said that Bathsheba succoured "people". The text only has one person being succoured. This weakens your portrayal of her as someone who would regularly mediate.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostAgain, you believe only one person in all of her existence came to her? It seems far more plausible that only one example is mentioned. Bathsheba was not punished for her request in any way, and there's also nothing that indicates that anything changed afterwards.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Paprika View PostI meant that there's no crowning in the text.
You're claiming that it would "usually" have a certain meaning. Please do show that.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostSo? Lets say that there were a mention of any crowning in the Bible at all. Is Solomon suddenly no longer a king?
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Thoughtful Monk, 04-14-2024, 04:34 PM
|
5 responses
51 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 04-28-2024, 05:40 PM | ||
Started by One Bad Pig, 04-10-2024, 12:35 PM
|
0 responses
28 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
04-10-2024, 12:35 PM
|
||
Started by NorrinRadd, 04-13-2022, 12:54 AM
|
45 responses
344 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by NorrinRadd
04-12-2024, 04:35 PM
|
||
Started by Zymologist, 07-09-2019, 01:18 PM
|
369 responses
17,370 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by NorrinRadd
04-27-2024, 01:18 PM
|
Comment