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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Coming Storm
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"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI wish I had your faith in the Constitution. Frankly I think there's a group of lawyers working on away around those restrictions right now. They may be just waiting for the right case or a more favorable Supreme Court. Also there's all these Human Right commissions that seem to take the attitude of religious rights are less important than other rights.
Ultimately they won't get us because we're religious. We'll be gotten because we're part of a criminal organization that deserves to be wiped out. (The easiest example: any organization that persistently shelters pedophiles is a criminal conspiracy that should be disbanded.)
By the way, I'm religious and not Christian because I think it will start with Christianity but will spread to cover other faiths eventually.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostProbably in the long term. I think the next few years is more and more churches will become useless and the remaining faithful will find it harder and harder to find other faithful.
Personnally for long time, I was undecided on the answer. In the past couple years, I've moved to an answer of "no.""For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostSometime as President Obama's administration progressed, I saw a storm coming. It was just small clouds off in the distance but they were there. Unfortunately it's too far back for me to recall what events prompted me to preceive this.
Over the years, the clouds have thickened and darkened and now I'm beginning to feel a cold wind. The storm is approaching although I can not say how soon it will hit. I'm certainly not ready for it.
A genuine persecution of Christians is coming to America. Our churches are not ready because the church leaders probably don't believe it's coming. Their self-help, life counsel, and encouragement ministries aren't strong enough to withstand what is coming. The church goal has become making the members feel comfortable and safe. They can't believe they will ever be persecuted.
Will the storm arrive tomorrow? Nah. Will the storm arrive next month? Probably not. Will the storm arrive next year? There's a chance. Will the storm arrive in five years? More likely. One thing I've learned is when I see these things, it's not immediate fulfillment. Give it some time before you call me wrong.
(Yeah, this is not my normal style. I've been thinking about this for awhile but I have no idea why it came out this way.)
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Originally posted by seanD View PostYou were right. It looks like the whole PANIC OF 2020 will eventually be used to harass and forcefully shut down US churches. So far, at least some if not most churches are receiving exemptions. But I suspect if we have a second wave or something, and pastors get more defiant, enforcement will get even more harsh. Didn't think something like that would ever come to our shores, but now it's a very good possibility.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostYou were right. It looks like the whole PANIC OF 2020 will eventually be used to harass and forcefully shut down US churches. So far, at least some if not most churches are receiving exemptions. But I suspect if we have a second wave or something, and pastors get more defiant, enforcement will get even more harsh. Didn't think something like that would ever come to our shores, but now it's a very good possibility.
I think Christianity is in a bind. Between supporting President Trump and defying social distancing orders, there are many parts of society that would view these as hostile acts. Eventually, they will get power and bring the power of the government down on churches.
Somehow, Christianity has lost it's appeal. My initial thoughts on this is the causes are the Moral Majority bringing Christianity into politics and a horrible lack of discipleship so most Christians aren't even exposed to what it means to be Christian. The later shows in all the sexual scandals that have afflicted both Catholicism and Protestantism.
I wish I knew what the answer was. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be found in the fires of persecution."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOur Church has reopened - and this past Sunday, we had 2 families visit us because their churches are not yet open.
I think as Christians, we have to start getting use to the regionalism of the United States. Just because everything is right in my area, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. So I think it's possible there will be freedom of religion in parts of the US and restrictions in other parts of the US.
I'm not hopeful for my area. I haven't heard any local objections to churches being closed and we'll probably still be closed for another 6 weeks at least. I suspect a lot of churches on the edge financially are going to close up. I remember I think it was Pew survey about how reliable the Bible is that was conducted nationally and my area was in the bottom 20%. It now shows, we're not Christian up here anymore because being Christian doesn't matter to people here anymore."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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It's odd. I don't think our church feels like it's big problem. We're getting pretty good participation remotely. The food pantry and other service activities have ramped up. Kids are holding events via video. The church is people, not a building. I also expect we'll have outdoor services fairly soon.
I think Christianity is in a bind. Between supporting President Trump and defying social distancing orders, there are many parts of society that would view these as hostile acts.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostCertainly when I made the OP at the end of January, coronavirus was mostly viewed as a Chinese problem. I didn't think it would cause as destructive as it has proven to be.
I think Christianity is in a bind. Between supporting President Trump and defying social distancing orders, there are many parts of society that would view these as hostile acts. Eventually, they will get power and bring the power of the government down on churches.
Somehow, Christianity has lost it's appeal. My initial thoughts on this is the causes are the Moral Majority bringing Christianity into politics and a horrible lack of discipleship so most Christians aren't even exposed to what it means to be Christian. The later shows in all the sexual scandals that have afflicted both Catholicism and Protestantism.
I wish I knew what the answer was. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be found in the fires of persecution.
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Originally posted by hedrick View PostIt's odd. I don't think our church feels like it's big problem. We're getting pretty good participation remotely. The food pantry and other service activities have ramped up. Kids are holding events via video. The church is people, not a building. I also expect we'll have outdoor services fairly soon.
They are hostile acts."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI believe it was legitimately inspired. And I'm not the one that readily goes there with these types of spiritual things."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI don't see that happening unless the constitution is utterly abolished, at least not on a governmental level. Not saying it's impossible, as we're certainly seeing glimpses of that here and there. But for the most part, the constitution is holding firm against this. On the other hand, I can definitely see Christians bending to the pressure of pop culture.
In fairness, this article thinks it's a good decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...rnor-in-church
This article thinks it's a bad decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...erts-strangled
This decision doesn't help my feelings that the Constitution will be no help in defending my religious beliefs."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI didn't hear any news about this SCOTUS decision supporting governors being able to close churches as long as they are treated like other businesses until I stumbled across an article on it.
In fairness, this article thinks it's a good decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...rnor-in-church
This article thinks it's a bad decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...erts-strangled
This decision doesn't help my feelings that the Constitution will be no help in defending my religious beliefs.
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[
The blatant double standard is entirely partisan driven. Here's the Guardian trying to find justification (and classifying it as "science") for why the protests are okay but not indoor gatherings, like church gatherings or campaign rallies. If a second wave occurs, leftist politicians will have no conscience problem whatsoever blaming conservatives and moving against church gatherings in spite of the protests they enthusiastically endorsed prior.Last edited by seanD; 06-18-2020, 01:02 PM.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostSometime as President Obama's administration progressed, I saw a storm coming. It was just small clouds off in the distance but they were there. Unfortunately it's too far back for me to recall what events prompted me to preceive this.
Over the years, the clouds have thickened and darkened and now I'm beginning to feel a cold wind. The storm is approaching although I can not say how soon it will hit. I'm certainly not ready for it.
A genuine persecution of Christians is coming to America. Our churches are not ready because the church leaders probably don't believe it's coming. Their self-help, life counsel, and encouragement ministries aren't strong enough to withstand what is coming. The church goal has become making the members feel comfortable and safe. They can't believe they will ever be persecuted.
Will the storm arrive tomorrow? Nah. Will the storm arrive next month? Probably not. Will the storm arrive next year? There's a chance. Will the storm arrive in five years? More likely. One thing I've learned is when I see these things, it's not immediate fulfillment. Give it some time before you call me wrong.
(Yeah, this is not my normal style. I've been thinking about this for awhile but I have no idea why it came out this way.)"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
Comment
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