If God creates something for the purpose of him destroying it, then doesn't destroy it, then he is not omnipotent. How would that be any different than you claiming that God isn't omnipotent if he desires all to be saved but doesn't save all?
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This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Universalism
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf God creates something for the purpose of him destroying it, then doesn't destroy it, then he is not omnipotent. How would that be any different than you claiming that God isn't omnipotent if he desires all to be saved but doesn't save all?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAt this point, I'm not sure what brother Lee is actually saying.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWell since this is in Christianity 101, and universalism is unorthodox, nobody should be promoting universalism in this thread to begin with. We can discuss what is wrong with it, but if someone wants to argue why it is true, they need to start another thread."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostUniversalism is a lazy man's excuse to ignore the Great Commission.
AND, doesn't universalism do harm to Jesus' sacrifice? If everyone is saved then why did Jesus have to die?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf you feel called to do that and think it could work, go for it. But be prepared to just move on if they don't listen.
I had a Bible study yesterday and was amazed how many said they believe everyone will be saved aside from Jesus. It seems that they believe that Jesus is only one way to God, others get there by following the law or saying 5 prayers per day or even believing there is a higher Being.
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostThe problem with leaving is perhaps I will find heresy in the next church and then the next.....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostThe problem with leaving is perhaps I will find heresy in the next church and then the next.
I had a Bible study yesterday and was amazed how many said they believe everyone will be saved aside from Jesus. It seems that they believe that Jesus is only one way to God, others get there by following the law or saying 5 prayers per day or even believing there is a higher Being.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostFind yourself a good church, no matter how long it takes. You might want to consider moving to a different denomination since the methodist leaders have pretty much accepted homosexuality as being acceptable. Maybe a good Southern Baptist church like Cow Poke leads? He could probably help you find one in your area if you PM him.
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostI always thought I was a closet Baptist. There is one about 20 minutes away. I'm going to listen to some of their pastor's sermons. Thanks.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOr a good Bible Church - I know a number of Bible Church pastors around me, and they're great guys - the theology is pretty consistent with Baptist, or vice versa - more about "What does the Bible say" than "Here's what I think, and here are a couple verses to back it up".
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYep. although there are some independent baptist churches that you can't be sure of what they are teaching unless you check them out. My mom's baptist church is OK, but it is KJV Only and the preacher is the type that starts breathing funny and gets red faced as he "gets the holy spirit" going. I usually couldn't follow him at all when the started his strutting chicken walk with his gospel yelling.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd, yet, people die not having repented.
For example, "What about those who have never heard the gospel?" Even J.I. Packer has indicated that they may have a chance to hear and believe, after dying.
Originally posted by lee_merrillNo, people have to repent and put their faith in Jesus, his sacrifice is the atonement for sin.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostSo there would need to be hope for repentance after death.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf God creates something for the purpose of him destroying it, then doesn't destroy it, then he is not omnipotent. How would that be any different than you claiming that God isn't omnipotent if he desires all to be saved but doesn't save all?
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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