Originally posted by NorrinRadd
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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I view homosexuality as part of "sexual immorality" which the bible condemns in various places. I don't think it is any better or worse than any other sexual immorality. I do think that adding pride to the mix makes it worse because you are encouraging others to sin with you by claiming it is "good" and not a sin.
And as far as gluttony goes, I think all Americans and Europeans could be accused of that by those in the third world who have to scrape for scraps. But I view gluttony as someone who takes undue pleasure in eating. Eating past just getting nourishment and overdoing it, just like an alcoholic overdoes drinking. I am not talking an occasional dinner out, or a Baptist church pot-luck picnic once in a while. I am talking about making a lifestyle of it. That is gluttony. When food takes precedent over your life, like booze does to an alcoholic.
I myself am overweight. Partly because of genetics, partly because of age and some medications. I don't overeat most of the time, I try to eat healthy because of high cholesterol and diabetes, but I can't seem to lose any weight. I am sure most people looking at me would think "glutton" - but I don't revel in food, taking undue pleasure in stuffing my face. I actually see food as an enemy sometimes, keeping me from losing weight. Unlike an alcoholic, you can't abstain from food.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
I can't seem to find anything in the Old Testament commentaries I've read that indicate that Biblical gluttony included overeating and vomiting, though to be fair, commentaries are rarely exhaustive on the use of single words/phrases. It's very possible that there's a monograph that deals with the subject.
The passages that Littlejoe cites in post #22 are interesting. English Bibles translate a couple different Hebrew words into glutton/gluttony. So, for instance, the Deuteronomy passage translates the Hebrew word zalal/zalel to glutton, but that's a pretty loose translation of the word which literally means "to shake", but probably in context means something closer to "squanderer." The Proverbs passages are a translation of the phrase which roughly means something like "man of big appetite" where is the Hebrew word for throat or gullet. The context of Old Testament warnings seem less to do with overeating as we understand it, and more to do with (at least in Proverbs 23) polite rules for eating in the company of rulers, and (in most other passages) wasteful eating. Ancient Israel obviously didn't have a McDonalds on the corner of every block, and overeating was a concern, not necessarily because of any physical issues, but because you'd be eating into shared and limited resources.
The Bible has other passages on excessive behavior, over-indulging just for the sake of over-indulging, and making pleasure an idol, but it doesn't seem to me it necessarily has in mind the preacher who relishes the idea of the church BBQ and bake sale. But yeah, anything done in excess can be sinful, whether it's too much eating or watching too much TV or what have you.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI view homosexuality as part of "sexual immorality" which the bible condemns in various places. I don't think it is any better or worse than any other sexual immorality.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Homosexual acts, like all sexual sins, is something that can lead to your damnation. Or at least, we Christians, whether baptists or Catholic, East or West, can agree that one can't be a practicing homosexuality while also consistently maintaining a sincere Christian faith.
I also believe that homosexuality is in some sense worse, more distorted, than sex outside of marriage. So its bad, its not something you can engage in as a Christian and merely excuse as a personal weakness.
There are other sins of course that are worse. I wonder if its as bad as a person who is unfaithful to their spouse. In the end homosexuality is just a sin that's contrary to human sexuality and dignity, while unfaithfulness is both a sexual sin, a betrayal of a person and a sin against justice. But on the other hand someone who is being unfaithful might just be committing a one time event, while someone in an active homosexual relationship is in an ongoing sinful state...
At any rate, its bad, worse than unmarried sex, but I don't know where exactly on the grand scale of sinfulness to put it.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostHomosexual acts, like all sexual sins, is something that can lead to your damnation. Or at least, we Christians, whether baptists or Catholic, East or West, can agree that one can't be a practicing homosexuality while also consistently maintaining a sincere Christian faith.
I also believe that homosexuality is in some sense worse, more distorted, than sex outside of marriage. So its bad, its not something you can engage in as a Christian and merely excuse as a personal weakness.
There are other sins of course that are worse. I wonder if its as bad as a person who is unfaithful to their spouse. In the end homosexuality is just a sin that's contrary to human sexuality and dignity, while unfaithfulness is both a sexual sin, a betrayal of a person and a sin against justice. But on the other hand someone who is being unfaithful might just be committing a one time event, while someone in an active homosexual relationship is in an ongoing sinful state...
At any rate, its bad, worse than unmarried sex, but I don't know where exactly on the grand scale of sinfulness to put it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThen why did they try to stone the adultress in the NT?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI said fornication not adultery, fornication could be two unmarried people have sex outside of marriage.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I think it's safe to say, at this point, that homosexuality (and its associate immoralities) is the only sin we see "going on parade" (literally) BOASTING of involvement in the sin.
The fact that these "pride" parades frequently (routinely?) include near naked people, simulated sex acts, men kissing little boys on the mouth, and other displays of sexual deviance pretty well singles it out as "way different" from other sins.
And, let's not forget that, as the Gay Pride thing was gaining momentum, even NAMBLA was part of that crowd. I would not be surprised if they came back into the fold as 'age of consent' opponents.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Yes it could include all of that but would also apply to between two unmarried single people.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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