Christians and Trump--two perspectives

[Ronson]

I just honestly did not know that referring to January 6th as a "riot" and not an "insurrection" was a MAGA talking point until I saw that news item. After I saw that, our discussion made perfect sense.

I know you have me pegged as a non-trumper. That's fair. I'm an original Never Trumper and I am proud that I remained Never-Trump from the beginning. It's due to Trump's vulgarity, immorality, indecency, dishonesty, mendacity, mockery, arrogance, and ignorance.

I didn't realize Trump was running for Time's "Man of the Year."

[One Bad Pig]

I do. Birds of a feather flock together. You talk exactly like them.

Then I should perhaps be giving their arguments more credence.

Personally, IMO the "never Trump" position is a rather myopic one - not because I like Trump, but because it negates the possibility of a "worse than Trump" position. That more or less forces one into necessarily demonizing Trump regardless of what position he or anyone else takes.

[rogue06]

Five people died, Beverly

But only one of them died as a result of the riot. That was an unarmed young woman who was shot by a jumpy cop who's record plainly shows he should not be allowed to handle any firearm and various pictures and videos from that day confirms that this. Such as scurrying about when there was no danger with his finger on the trigger.

If she had been killed during the Summer of Love the left would hail her a martyr like they do Floyd.

[Cow Poke]

But only one of them died as a result of the riot. That was an unarmed young woman who was shot by a jumpy cop who's record plainly shows he should not be allowed to handle any firearm and various pictures and videos from that day confirms that this. Such as scurrying about when there was no danger with his finger on the trigger.

If she had been killed during the Summer of Love the left would hail her a martyr like they do Floyd.

That was pointed out to him - he doesn't appear to be particularly interested in those fact thingies.

[rogue06]

Random thought: I think a few Christian supporters of Trump are guilty of idolatry. From my Christian perspective, he's probably the better choice than Biden. Unfortunately, I also think choosing between Trump and Biden is like being asked "do you wish to be executed by hanging or firing squad?"

I think that at some level, all presidents have some supporting them in that manner. But when we look at the outright comparisons made to Jesus and God that we saw with Obama (with him usually coming out on top!), that sort of adoration is almost nonexistent for either of the two current candidates.

[rogue06]

I just honestly did not know that referring to January 6th as a "riot" and not an "insurrection" was a MAGA talking point until I saw that news item. After I saw that, our discussion made perfect sense.

I know you have me pegged as a non-trumper. That's fair. I'm an original Never Trumper and I am proud that I remained Never-Trump from the beginning. It's due to Trump's vulgarity, immorality, indecency, dishonesty, mendacity, mockery, arrogance, and ignorance.

Basically you prefer someone who keeps doing severe damage to the country over someone who is a crude and rude lout.

[Timothy]

Basically you prefer someone who keeps doing severe damage to the country over someone who is a crude and rude lout.

Since it appears that I am alone in my belief that as Christians, for the sake of our own reputations, we should not align with a politian as corrupt as Donald Trump, I will just leave.
Have a nice day everyone!

[Cow Poke]

Since it appears that I am alone in my belief that as Christians, for the sake of our own reputations, we should not align with a politian as corrupt as Donald Trump, I will just leave.
Have a nice day everyone!

I thought you already left, and "have a nice day'd" us!

Hotel California.jpg

[Cerebrum123]

Since it appears that I am alone in my belief that as Christians, for the sake of our own reputations, we should not align with a politian as corrupt as Donald Trump, I will just leave.
Have a nice day everyone!

If you don't think Biden is just as corrupt if not more so, then I have a bridge to sell you.

[rogue06]

Since it appears that I am alone in my belief that as Christians, for the sake of our own reputations, we should not align with a politian as corrupt as Donald Trump, I will just leave.
Have a nice day everyone!

It isn't that I don't think Trump is corrupt but rather that old Joe is more so and incompetent as well.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I think having three branches of government and presidential term limits and the terms only 4 years is probably the best thing the US has going for it. No one person can make too many changes or take too much power in that amount of time. It causes some gridlock, but that's better than having to deal with the same leaders on an ongoing basis, like Canada has to deal with.

I would add term limits. I've seen too many people hold on to office too long. You need a way to get fresh ideas into the government.

[rogue06]

I would add term limits. I've seen too many people hold on to office too long. You need a way to get fresh ideas into the government.

That would require a Constitutional amendment much like the one limiting a president to two terms, so very unlikely to happen.

The problem is that folks seemingly want term limits for politicians who aren't in their state or district. They want them for those elsewhere, why they continue to reelect the person in their area.

[Cow Poke]

I would add term limits. I've seen too many people hold on to office too long. You need a way to get fresh ideas into the government.

Politicians are like diapers - they need to be changed frequently, and for the same reason.

[One Bad Pig]

Since it appears that I am alone in my belief that as Christians, for the sake of our own reputations, we should not align with a politian as corrupt as Donald Trump, I will just leave.
Have a nice day everyone!

Leaving is certainly easier than accurately presenting one's interlocutors. You might well be holier than the rest of us - God knows, I have no lack of issues - but nobody likes their faces being rubbed in it.

[KingsGambit]

I've had a couple days to think about this more. While I agree that Christians should be involved in the political process, I'm getting more convinced that the Kingdom of God will not be voted in. Maybe we can get a slightly better world if the correct politician is elected. None of them are Christ. The Kingdom of God will only arrive when Christ returns to rule and reign.

Just watching the prolife movement for the past couple years has been instructive. They did get a good deed done by getting Roe v Wade repealed. However, I also see, that pro-life isn't suddenly the view of the people. I think the pro-life movement needs to start putting more effort into changing hearts and minds now. I won't abandon the political process. I just think it is reaching a point where increasing energy into it will produce less and less results. It the old saying, "You can't legislate morality."

Random thought: I think a few Christian supporters of Trump are guilty of idolatry. From my Christian perspective, he's probably the better choice than Biden. Unfortunately, I also think choosing between Trump and Biden is like being asked "do you wish to be executed by hanging or firing squad?"

I do think there needs to be some political consequence to Trump for suddenly running to the left on abortion. If we support him nonetheless, we've demonstrated that there is no incentive for Republicans to take pro-life positions since we'll vote for them either way anyway.