The death of Jesus at the hands of the Romans

[mossrose]

Is all of that Islamic belief, or is some of it your opinion?

[mikewhitney]

The only thing that makes sense in this description is saying that if Christianity didn't exist, then Christians wouldn't be dying. If there are no Hobbits, then no Hobbits would be dying.

The oddest thing is to say that the fake-identity who died on the cross is the one who started Christianity. If that guy died, why didn't the true Jesus start Christianity?

Now the Muslims want to blame God for causing the deaths that are being done by the hand of Muslims. It would seem better if Muslims said they themselves should stop killing Christians.

If you have stated a generic Muslim belief here, there is simply no cohesion to it.

Next, the point about not saving Muhammad but having saved Jesus ... this seems backwards. There seems to be an excuse why Muhammad wasn't also raised from the dead. So, if Jesus didn't really die, then Jesus isn't greater than Muhammad. (There certainly is the premise that God would only raise the better prophet. So Jesus couldn't have been raised from the dead.) Such belief system requires a lot of conjecture and re-arranging of ideas just to come to the desired conclusion.

It is near to impossible finding any cohesion in this theory.

[The Remonstrant]

The Jewish leaders were absolutely pulling the strings. Even Pilate wanted to let him go, but didn't dare stand up to them. If it weren't for the Jews, the Romans wou't have killed him, but also if it wasn't for the Jews he wouldn't have even been there in the first place.

¹⁴ For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews ¹⁵ who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind ¹⁶

[JonathanL]

At festivals, the population of Jerusalem would swell to as much as 10 time normal

For a split second I read this sentence as "At festivals, the population would smell 10 times as much as normal".

[Christian3]

Is all of that Islamic belief, or is some of it your opinion?

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/4/157/default.htm

Clips:

Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar and for their saying: We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God. And they killed him not, nor they crucified him. Rather, a likeness to him of another was shown to them. And, truly, those who were at variance in it are in uncertainty about it. There is no knowledge with them about it but they are pursuing an opinion. And they for certain killed him not.

Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali And for their saying, "Surely we killed the Masih, Isa son of Maryam, (The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary) the Messenger of Allah." And in no way did they kill him, and in no way did they crucify him, but a resemblance of him was presented to them (i.e. the matter was made obscure for them through mutual resemblance)

[Christian3]

The only thing that makes sense in this description is saying that if Christianity didn't exist, then Christians wouldn't be dying. If there are no Hobbits, then no Hobbits would be dying.

The oddest thing is to say that the fake-identity who died on the cross is the one who started Christianity. If that guy died, why didn't the true Jesus start Christianity?

Now the Muslims want to blame God for causing the deaths that are being done by the hand of Muslims. It would seem better if Muslims said they themselves should stop killing Christians.

If you have stated a generic Muslim belief here, there is simply no cohesion to it.

Next, the point about not saving Muhammad but having saved Jesus ... this seems backwards. There seems to be an excuse why Muhammad wasn't also raised from the dead. So, if Jesus didn't really die, then Jesus isn't greater than Muhammad. (There certainly is the premise that God would only raise the better prophet. So Jesus couldn't have been raised from the dead.) Such belief system requires a lot of conjecture and re-arranging of ideas just to come to the desired conclusion.

It is near to impossible finding any cohesion in this theory.

According to Islam, Jesus was translated into heaven without dying.

Surah 158:
Literal
(Word by Word) Nay, Allah raised him towards Him. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

In my opinion this look-a-like accomplished nothing because Jesus' followers believed this look-a-like WAS Jesus.

"Now the Muslims want to blame God for causing the deaths that are being done by the hand of Muslims. It would seem better if Muslims said they themselves should stop killing Christians."

That was my opinion.

The Ahmadi Muslims who are considered heretics by mainstream Islam believe Jesus was crucified but survived. Jesus was given an ointment that cured His wounds; He went to India; lived to be 120 years old; died and was buried in Kashmir.

[mossrose]

For a split second I read this sentence as "At festivals, the population would smell 10 times as much as normal".

I expect that was also likely the case.

[Mountain Man]

This reminds me of the passage saying that Pharaoh was created to reveal God's power and glory, which was accomplished through his stubborn refusal to free the Israelites and the subsequent plagues and the destruction of the Egyptian army. People say, "But what about Pharaoh's freewill?" to which I say that God's power and glory could have just as well been revealed through the Pharaoh denouncing his idols and bending his knee to Yahweh.

The point is that God's purpose is never thwarted by human agency. If the Romans hadn't killed Jesus then the Jewish leaders would have probably taken it upon themselves, or if not the Jews then another group entirely. I think the only thing certain is that Jesus had to die in some fashion since that was the plan that God set in motion and was prophesied way back in the Garden of Eden and throughout the Old Testament.

[Rushing Jaws]

People don't get that Jesus would have died exactly as He did because GOD was orchestrating everything.

It is impossible to even consider "what if" in this or any other situation regarding Christ because the sovereignty of God was in place every moment of His life, and, in fact, before time began.

[mossrose]

He had to die as He did to fulfill prophecy.

[The Remonstrant]

Such an understanding of the portrayal of Pontus

Correction: Pontius Pilate.