No, absolutely not. Belief in God based on evidence is rationalism. God is to be believed in regardless of evidence, despite all evidence to the contrary. Because none of it is worth anything. If evidence were decisive, I would desert Christ and God in a heartbeat. I agree with Luther: reason is a whore: it can be used equally for or against belief in God.
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This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
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Believing or Not Believing Because of Evidence
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Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostNo, absolutely not. Belief in God based on evidence is rationalism. God is to be believed in regardless of evidence, despite all evidence to the contrary. Because none of it is worth anything. If evidence were decisive, I would desert Christ and God in a heartbeat. I agree with Luther: reason is a whore: it can be used equally for or against belief in God.
Why do you believe in God then?
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut that is correct isn't it? If Scripture is inspired then it has to be the final authority. Other proofs and evidences may play in, but something has to have the last word."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThat doesn't make sense.
Why do you believe in God then?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostWhat he seems to be saying is that if you allow these outside forms of evidence to assist you in believing the Bible, you don't really believe the Bible.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYes it does. If God causes the man to believe...
Pure Calvinism. It makes God into the bad guy.
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When Paul was preaching on Mars Hill, he referenced the UNKNOWN GOD as part of his appeal for their consideration - that was certainly "outside the Bible" (until Luke wrote about it, of course).
The Bible, apart from the Holy Spirit, is pretty much 'just a book' to lost people, just like the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness. God didn't give us the Bible in a vacuum.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf God causes us to believe then we have no choice in the matter and God is ultimately responsible for everyone who doesn't believe and the only reason they end up in Hell is because God chose to not make them believe.
Pure Calvinism. It makes God into the bad guy.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd why live a Christian life if we're all gonna slide on into home regardless of the game we play?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostGod is not limited to one attribute. You could say, that He is also "all just." So He displays His justice in some and his goodness and mercy in others.
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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