Commander of Angelic Army

[Scrawly]

Once when Joshua was by Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing before him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you one of us, or one of our adversaries?" He replied, "Neither; but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and he said to him, "What do you command your servant, my lord?" The commander of the army of the Lord said to Joshua, Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy. And Joshua did so. (Josh. 5:13-15).

Who is this commander of the Lord's army? Please note that Joshua fell on his face to the earth and "worshiped" (NRSV) -- this seems to extend beyond mere obeisance and reverence exemplified by Joseph's brothers in Gen. 42:6 -- further indicated by the commander's command that Joshua: "Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy"; which of course harks back to Ex. 3:5.

So, is the commander of the Lord's angelic army none other than the pre-incarnate Messiah? Is this a Christophany in the Old Testament? What do you say?

Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? (Matt. 26:53).

[Cerebrum123]

I think all of the appearances of "the Angel of the Lord" are Christophanies.

[Faber]

Why not the Holy Spirit appearing in human form? Or why not the Father appearing in human form? Or why not just say it was God Himself appearing in human form? Why does it have to be the Son?

[mossrose]

Why not the Holy Spirit appearing in human form? Or why not the Father appearing in human form? Or why not just say it was God Himself appearing in human form? Why does it have to be the Son?

Because most scholars agree that these references in the OT refer to Christ.

[Faber]

But on what grounds? I'm not saying they're wrong; I just don't see adding more into the Bible than what's there. It's called eisegesis.

[mossrose]

But on what grounds? I'm not saying they're wrong; I just don't see adding more into the Bible than what's there. It's called eisegesis.

Perhaps the Hebrew language says it's so.

[Jedidiah]

But on what grounds? I'm not saying they're wrong; I just don't see adding more into the Bible than what's there. It's called eisegesis.

What normally happens when a man tries to worship an angel as God? What happened in this case?

[Rushing Jaws]

[Cerebrum123]

But on what grounds? I'm not saying they're wrong; I just don't see adding more into the Bible than what's there. It's called eisegesis.

Well, Jesus is the one we know incarnated in human form, and two it fits well with His role as God's Word.

Rushing Jaws there are a couple of points about the Angel of the LORD. In one verse He refers to Himself in the covenant name of YWHW, Joshua recognized Him as YWHW, and a later verse explicitly calls Him YWHW. There are a lot more passages about the connection with the divine here. He also doesn't refuse worship as other angels do in numerous occasions in the OT, and NT. You're apparently not reading the text carefully if you are missing some of the big clues there.

[Cow Poke]

When John fell at the feet of the angel in Rev 22:8-9, he was told not to do that, because the angel was a "fellow servant"....

In Joshua 5, when Joshua falls before the "commander of the army of the Lord", he actually asks, in essence, "what now?" and is told to continue in worship by removing his shoes.

"The Lord" then continues, in Joshua 6, to give 'battle plans" to Joshua.

I believe this was, indeed, the pre-incarnate Christ.

(I always like to add that, having flatly negated Joshua's request to "Identify Friend or Foe", the Captain of the Host of the Army of the Lord was saying, "I'm not here to take sides, I'm here to take over". )

[Cow Poke]

Why not the Holy Spirit appearing in human form?

Where else do we see the Holy Spirit doing that?

Or why not the Father appearing in human form?

He did - in Christ Jesus.

Or why not just say it was God Himself appearing in human form? Why does it have to be the Son?

[half kidding] because that's his yob, man! [/half kidding]

[Scrawly]

But on what grounds? I'm not saying they're wrong; I just don't see adding more into the Bible than what's there. It's called eisegesis.

So who do you say the commander of the army of the Lord is?

[Scrawly]

This passage is very interesting because of its connections to passages like 2 Kings 6, Rev 12, and other places about angelic guardians & warriors, and heavenly armies.

Do you take the position that Israelite religion was henotheistic at some point in it's supposed evolution; and that other deities existed alongside Yahweh?

I see no reason to think there is a Christophany here: a heavenly being is indicated in the text, but finding a Divine Person there is a step too far.

But the commander is echoing Exodus 3:5 when he tells Joshua to remove the sandals from his feet.

I think the story has more in common with stories, known from Classical authors, of gods fighting for armies: such as the help given by Castor and Pollux to the Roman army at the battle of Lake Regillus in about 499 BC. This narrative is, ISTM, an Israelite/Jewish version of that motif, but theologised in accord with Israel’s faith. It does not follow from this that a genuine religious experience does not underlie the story.

So in the context of Israelite religion, this commander was a lesser astral god among many in a henotheistic sense? Why not just see them angels in a hierarchical sense?

Another interesting question is, how does the figure of the “angelic” Heavenly Warrior relate to the concept of God Himself as a “man of war” ? Did one idea succeed the other, or were they concurrent ?

You will find throughout the OT that the Angel of the Lord and Yahweh operate as one and the same, yet remain distinct, kind of like the tri-unity of God, or binitarianism at least. Please see Gen. 48:15-16; Isa. 44:6.

[Rushing Jaws]

Do you take the position that Israelite religion was henotheistic at some point in it's supposed evolution; and that other deities existed alongside Yahweh?

• henotheism
• polydaemonism
• polytheism
• the recognition of a female consort for JHWH
• a mixture of the preceding at the same time in different parts of Israel/Judah
• strict monotheism throughout the history of the Chosen People (basically, the traditional Christian pre-critical approach)
• other solutions

But the commander is echoing Exodus 3:5 when he tells Joshua to remove the sandals from his feet.

So in the context of Israelite religion, this commander was a lesser astral god among many in a henotheistic sense? Why not just see them angels in a hierarchical sense?

You will find throughout the OT that the Angel of the Lord and Yahweh operate as one and the same, yet remain distinct, kind of like the tri-unity of God, or binitarianism at least. Please see Gen. 48:15-16; Isa. 44:6.

IMHO that Christianises the OT too much. IMHO, the Trinity is not to be found anywhere in the OT; I think the Tri-Unity of God has to wait for the Person of Christ to be revealed, since He alone is a fully adequate Revelation of the Father. The Jews had enough trouble getting it into their heads that God was One & Unique & Incomparable - there were thousands of gods in the ANE, and no lack of Divine triads, dyads, quartets, and other groups of gods; not to mention hypostatised Divine attributes. Working out a Christian doctrine of the Trinity took centuries, even in a culture that was gradually putting the old gods aside. So there is a good *a priori* case against the idea that the Trinity was revealed or intimated in the OT, even before one gets down to the OT texts adduced in support of the idea.
The angel St Gabriel faithfully expresses the Divine purpose when he greets the BVM, but no-one thinks the angel is a Divine Person.

[Sparko]

Why not the Holy Spirit appearing in human form? Or why not the Father appearing in human form? Or why not just say it was God Himself appearing in human form? Why does it have to be the Son?

Doesn't the bible say that no one has seen the Father?