Al Mohler: God's judgement is upon the Southern Baptist Convention

[One Bad Pig]

Something about the way Mohler presents this troubles me, and I can't figure out why. It's like he's trying too hard to distance himself from #MeToo, or trying to hard to be sure he condemns this....

I really don't get that the whole of the SBC is under the judgment of God because of Patterson's moral failure, or even the really poor manner in which this appears to have been handled. I personally know both Mohler and Patterson. This doesn't sound like Mohler at all, but as I said earlier, the last few times (over maybe the last 10 years or so) I've really thought Patterson was "losing it".

I think maybe, because Patterson (and Judge Pressler) were instrumental in getting the SBC back on track from our liberal drift, Mohler thinks he has to be especially hard on "us" (the SBC) to... that part I can't figure.

It does seem rather over the top, particularly as I hadn't heard anything at all about this aside from the possibility of Patterson stepping down.

[Cow Poke]

It does seem rather over the top, particularly as I hadn't heard anything at all about this aside from the possibility of Patterson stepping down.

That's what's weird - that he portrays it as "all over the headlines" (or whatever) when even my denominational leader friends (checked with them overnight) were unaware. It's like "hey, let me bring a glaring spotlight on this, blow it out of proportion*, and denounce it in the strongest terms possible".


*Again, not trying to minimize what happened, or the really sloppy way in which it was pretty much "swept under the rug"

[Sparko]

That's what's weird - that he portrays it as "all over the headlines" (or whatever) when even my denominational leader friends (checked with them overnight) were unaware. It's like "hey, let me bring a glaring spotlight on this, blow it out of proportion*, and denounce it in the strongest terms possible".


*Again, not trying to minimize what happened, or the really sloppy way in which it was pretty much "swept under the rug"

Mohler has gotten a lot more "political" over the years. Maybe this is what they call "virtue signalling"?

[Cow Poke]

Mohler has gotten a lot more "political" over the years. Maybe this is what they call "virtue signalling"?

OK, here's the deal....

It's something that has long concerned me about my SBC....

We have "denominational leader" positions, starting at the "associational level" (group of churches in local geographic area) and going all the way to president of the convention. I have been, on various occasions, the president of our area or association. When my term was over, I backed off - but in all cases continued as pastor of my own congregation.

The association has a paid "area missionary" or "director of missions", who is almost always a pastor who has "advanced" to this leadership position. This requires that he leave 'pastoring a church' for that period of time, and it's rare they ever go back to pastoring, except in retirement.

From there, that guy might become a regional or state denominational employee, or even a national 'denominational leader'. And, like all such things, it's 'politics'.

To me, it's more like "leaving the flock" to serve in a position of authority or recognition, and the type of person drawn to that is, sadly, often somebody looking to feather their own nest.

In some cases, it's like a guy "couldn't make it as a pastor", so he entered "denominational life" as a paid employee.

While that's not necessarily the path Mohler took, it does seem that as he "rose through the ranks", he became more political.

[One Bad Pig]

OK, here's the deal....

It's something that has long concerned me about my SBC....

We have "denominational leader" positions, starting at the "associational level" (group of churches in local geographic area) and going all the way to president of the convention. I have been, on various occasions, the president of our area or association. When my term was over, I backed off - but in all cases continued as pastor of my own congregation.

The association has a paid "area missionary" or "director of missions", who is almost always a pastor who has "advanced" to this leadership position. This requires that he leave 'pastoring a church' for that period of time, and it's rare they ever go back to pastoring, except in retirement.

From there, that guy might become a regional or state denominational employee, or even a national 'denominational leader'. And, like all such things, it's 'politics'.

To me, it's more like "leaving the flock" to serve in a position of authority or recognition, and the type of person drawn to that is, sadly, often somebody looking to feather their own nest.

In some cases, it's like a guy "couldn't make it as a pastor", so he entered "denominational life" as a paid employee.

While that's not necessarily the path Mohler took, it does seem that as he "rose through the ranks", he became more political.

Interesting. Orthodoxy is probably somewhat unique in that its parish priests generally aren't qualified to take the administrative position of bishop (because bishops can't be married, and most priests are). Instead, bishops are usually drawn from the ranks of priest-monks who have spent their adult life in a monastery. While a bishop usually spends quite a bit of time away from his cathedral, he usually leads the service wherever he is and preaches the homily.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting. Orthodoxy is probably somewhat unique in that its parish priests generally aren't qualified to take the administrative position of bishop (because bishops can't be married, and most priests are). Instead, bishops are usually drawn from the ranks of priest-monks who have spent their adult life in a monastery. While a bishop usually spends quite a bit of time away from his cathedral, he usually leads the service wherever he is and preaches the homily.

Yeah, I think the INTENT of pastors "advancing" to (particularly in regards to the local positions) leadership positions is that they are better qualified to understand the things pastors do and encounter, and basically be "pastors to the pastors". It just doesn't seem to work that way, in my experience.

Several years ago (more like 20) we had a "director of missions" who had been a pastor, and THAT guy truly was, in every sense of the word, a "pastor to the pastors", and worked tirelessly to support and encourage and coordinate... he was so clearly "not about me" but "about the Kingdom". I miss Harold.

[Sparko]

OK, here's the deal....

It's something that has long concerned me about my SBC....

We have "denominational leader" positions, starting at the "associational level" (group of churches in local geographic area) and going all the way to president of the convention. I have been, on various occasions, the president of our area or association. When my term was over, I backed off - but in all cases continued as pastor of my own congregation.

The association has a paid "area missionary" or "director of missions", who is almost always a pastor who has "advanced" to this leadership position. This requires that he leave 'pastoring a church' for that period of time, and it's rare they ever go back to pastoring, except in retirement.

From there, that guy might become a regional or state denominational employee, or even a national 'denominational leader'. And, like all such things, it's 'politics'.

To me, it's more like "leaving the flock" to serve in a position of authority or recognition, and the type of person drawn to that is, sadly, often somebody looking to feather their own nest.

In some cases, it's like a guy "couldn't make it as a pastor", so he entered "denominational life" as a paid employee.

While that's not necessarily the path Mohler took, it does seem that as he "rose through the ranks", he became more political.

I have met Mohler a few times. He used to come to my old church and teach classes (about 15 years ago) and he seemed to be a pretty nice, normal fellow back then. But I think that over the years as he gained more "notoriety" he has let the politics of it all influence him more than it should. I believe he was also on the wrong side of the whole mess Mike Licona was in and sided with Geisler. That disappointed me greatly and he lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

[Cow Poke]

I have met Mohler a few times. He used to come to my old church and teach classes (about 15 years ago) and he seemed to be a pretty nice, normal fellow back then. But I think that over the years as he gained more "notoriety" he has let the politics of it all influence him more than it should. I believe he was also on the wrong side of the whole mess Mike Licona was in and sided with Geisler. That disappointed me greatly and he lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

Yeah, and he REALLY appears to be grandstanding to the max in this situation.

[rogue06]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27970[/ATTACH]

Hey, that's ME in the white shirt!!!!

You're shorter than I remembered

[Cow Poke]

You're shorter than I remembered

Both feet reach the ground!

[NorrinRadd]

I've been vaguely aware of this topic for a couple of weeks, only because I follow "Christians for Biblical Equality" on Facebook.

Now it has caught the attention of The Daily Wire.

[KingsGambit]

The chairman of SWBTS released a statement with additional details about the alleged rape incident in 2003, if you can stomach them. It's really bad.

https://swbts.edu/news/releases/stat...2bgmM.facebook

[Rushing Jaws]

Something about the way Mohler presents this troubles me, and I can't figure out why. It's like he's trying too hard to distance himself from #MeToo, or trying to hard to be sure he condemns this....

I really don't get that the whole of the SBC is under the judgment of God because of Patterson's moral failure, or even the really poor manner in which this appears to have been handled. I personally know both Mohler and Patterson. This doesn't sound like Mohler at all, but as I said earlier, the last few times (over maybe the last 10 years or so) I've really thought Patterson was "losing it".

I think maybe, because Patterson (and Judge Pressler) were instrumental in getting the SBC back on track from our liberal drift, Mohler thinks he has to be especially hard on "us" (the SBC) to... that part I can't figure.

I found it troubling, and I think I know why. Elsewhere, I wrote this:

[Obsidian]

I don't understand what his supposed sin is. Not telling the police that someone accused someone of rape fifteen years ago? Assuming it really happened, there was nothing stopping the victim from going to the police herself.

[KingsGambit]

I don't understand what his supposed sin is. Not telling the police that someone accused someone of rape fifteen years ago? Assuming it really happened, there was nothing stopping the victim from going to the police herself.

You're deliberately ignoring the power differential here, with him being a seminary president (and implying that going forward would be an un-Christian thing to do). Legal but totally immoral.

I am totally unsurprised that you of all people are coming out of the woodwork to defend this guy.