Christians in America

[Cow Poke]

Hence why some of them search for a Christian-run bakery or florist so as to make them participate in a gay wedding and such.

As I stated when I testified at a Texas Senate hearing some time back, a young gay man approached me and told me he was going to be voting FOR the religious liberty bill that was coming up. He said he had been in meetings that week where his GLBQ associates were plotting to try to join local churches and/or schedule weddings so they could be denied, and then follow up with lawsuits. He said that was just wrong, and he was going to speak against it - in favor of the bill.

[Thoughtful Monk]

The Church seems to fare far better under persecution than in "good times".

Years ago, I had a pastor say the worst thing that happen to the church was when it became legal. It took me a long time to really understand the implications of what he said.

[Thoughtful Monk]

This is a topic I've spent a fair amount of time thinking and reading about.

First, the general future of society in the US (I'm restricting my thoughts to the US since that's where I live; you can decide if the following applies to your country), the future is a decline in our ability to live comfortable lives. I think from roughly the 1980's to 2019, the goal of life was to be comfortable. Covid and the events thereafter have ended that myth. With the increasing rise of aggressiveness in Russia and China, it's too easy to image some form of world war or like the Cold War, more proxy wars, breaking out. Suddenly, we are going to be called to self-sacrifice. We're not ready for that change. We'll resist it and there are too many politicians that will say we don't have to self-sacrifice. As an example, look at the growing push to reduce the standard work week to 4 days from 5 days. As an article I read awhile back says it: "the US is fat oxen looking to sleep while the wolves are gathering." (That's not exact but gives the sense.)

Please note, I believe the previous regardless of which political party controls Congress and the White House both now and after the election.

Now for the church. I think too many churches have become a reflection of society with the idea of life is to be comfortable. The sermons will be easy and unoffensive. Most sermons will actually be self-esteem boasters that focus on people and not God. In these sermons, God will be mentioned but He'll be a vague and generally benevolent being, Jesus will barely get a mention, and forget hearing about the Holy Spirit. Forget any preaching on sin, repentance, and salvation. Churches with either a good entertainment or strong sense of community will survive. Most will disappear as the members find the church irrelevant to their lives.

One item that has come into focus for me is a purpose of life is to build character to prepare me to fellowship with God for eternity. As I think about character, I realize it's hard to build it without suffering or self-discipline. We will need to have these traits to survive. I think churches that get back to preaching sin-repentance-salvation followed by practicing discipleship will become what people will look for as society and the government fail to respond. To preach and practice those right, you need a strong focus on God - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They need to start now to do this. As the car warranty commercials put it, "buy the warranty before the car breaks down." When the change hits, I think it will be faster than you think and there won't be time to prepare at that point.

I also agree with an article on one of my feeds that says the church needs to develop a theology of suffering.

Not sure this is coming out as I intend, mainly because I'm still thinking through. What do you think?

[Cow Poke]

This is a topic I've spent a fair amount of time thinking and reading about.

First, the general future of society in the US (I'm restricting my thoughts to the US since that's where I live; you can decide if the following applies to your country), the future is a decline in our ability to live comfortable lives. I think from roughly the 1980's to 2019, the goal of life was to be comfortable. Covid and the events thereafter have ended that myth. With the increasing rise of aggressiveness in Russia and China, it's too easy to image some form of world war or like the Cold War, more proxy wars, breaking out. Suddenly, we are going to be called to self-sacrifice. We're not ready for that change. We'll resist it and there are too many politicians that will say we don't have to self-sacrifice. As an example, look at the growing push to reduce the standard work week to 4 days from 5 days. As an article I read awhile back says it: "the US is fat oxen looking to sleep while the wolves are gathering." (That's not exact but gives the sense.)

Please note, I believe the previous regardless of which political party controls Congress and the White House both now and after the election.

Now for the church. I think too many churches have become a reflection of society with the idea of life is to be comfortable. The sermons will be easy and unoffensive. Most sermons will actually be self-esteem boasters that focus on people and not God. In these sermons, God will be mentioned but He'll be a vague and generally benevolent being, Jesus will barely get a mention, and forget hearing about the Holy Spirit. Forget any preaching on sin, repentance, and salvation. Churches with either a good entertainment or strong sense of community will survive. Most will disappear as the members find the church irrelevant to their lives.

One item that has come into focus for me is a purpose of life is to build character to prepare me to fellowship with God for eternity. As I think about character, I realize it's hard to build it without suffering or self-discipline. We will need to have these traits to survive. I think churches that get back to preaching sin-repentance-salvation followed by practicing discipleship will become what people will look for as society and the government fail to respond. To preach and practice those right, you need a strong focus on God - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They need to start now to do this. As the car warranty commercials put it, "buy the warranty before the car breaks down." When the change hits, I think it will be faster than you think and there won't be time to prepare at that point.

I also agree with an article on one of my feeds that says the church needs to develop a theology of suffering.

Not sure this is coming out as I intend, mainly because I'm still thinking through. What do you think?

yuh

[Sparko]

As I stated when I testified at a Texas Senate hearing some time back, a young gay man approached me and told me he was going to be voting FOR the religious liberty bill that was coming up. He said he had been in meetings that week where his GLBQ associates were plotting to try to join local churches and/or schedule weddings so they could be denied, and then follow up with lawsuits. He said that was just wrong, and he was going to speak against it - in favor of the bill.

Why do they need a religious liberty law when we already have the 1st Amendment?

[seanD]

The Church seems to fare far better under persecution than in "good times".

I don't see that happening when churches in America are giving in to leftism culture and embracing things like LGBTQ and abortion. My sister tells me her church has completely embraced this aberrant culture. I look at people like oxmixmudd and think that if he represents American churches, then all hope is lost when it comes to faith in America. The remnant of Christians that don't fall away entirely will just be given over to religious and cultural falsehoods.

[Cow Poke]

Why do they need a religious liberty law when we already have the 1st Amendment?

It was at the height of all that "Christian baker gets sued" stuff. Basically protecting religious organizations from frivolous lawsuits.
And stuff like this.

[Cow Poke]

I don't see that happening when churches in America are giving in to leftism culture and embracing things like LGBTQ and abortion. My sister tells me her church has completely embraced this aberrant culture. I look at people like oxmixmudd and think that if he represents American churches, then all hope is lost when it comes to faith in America. The remnant of Christians that don't fall away entirely will just be given over to religious and cultural falsehoods.

A Lutheran friend of mine said it best --- in the end, there will be just two kinds of Churches in America -- those that believe the Bible is the Word of God, and those that do not.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I don't see that happening when churches in America are giving in to leftism culture and embracing things like LGBTQ and abortion. My sister tells me her church has completely embraced this aberrant culture. I look at people like oxmixmudd and think that if he represents American churches, then all hope is lost when it comes to faith in America. The remnant of Christians that don't fall away entirely will just be given over to religious and cultural falsehoods.

Let's not confuse faith and church beliefs. Churches are composed of people with varying beliefs. These days, people tend to congregate with those of like belief. So, if you have a group of people who don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, they'll form a church who don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. The problem for Christians is those are the churches that get media attention. For Christians who do believe the Bible is the Word of God, it is all too easy to come to believe there are no faithful churches left. That is not true. You just have to look harder to find them. I wouldn't say the Christians that don't fall away will be given over to religious and cultural falsehoods. Rather, you're just going to have a tougher time finding them.

[Thoughtful Monk]

A Lutheran friend of mine said it best --- in the end, there will be just two kinds of Churches in America -- those that believe the Bible is the Word of God, and those that do not.

I think that has been a true statement since there was an America. You don't have to wait until the end.

[rogue06]

I think that has been a true statement since there was an America. You don't have to wait until the end.

Not just America.