Pope Francis: Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[Adrift]

Because either those cults were started by God, by man, or by Satan. So assume that a spiritual being did reveal the religion to those men and gave them a new book, a book that basically twisted what the bible said into knots and had the adherents believing nonsense about the creator of the universe. That would NOT be a religion that believed in the God of the bible. That would be a religion that believed in a false God, made in the image of the real God. An idol. Just because a group claims they believe in the same God as Christians doesn't make it true. They can call their false god, Jehovah, or YHWH or Allah. And they can say that it is the same God as the God of Abraham, and none of it is true.

No more than if I said I believed in George Washington and then proceeded to say he was a black woman who came from Africa and disguised herself to be a white general and became the first president. The George Washington I believed in would be a false one. Not the same one as the real one at all. I just believe in a lie and give it the same name as the first president.

Allah is NOT a real God. The God of Mormons is not a real God. They are nothing but false Gods, given a makeover to appear to be the same God as the real God. Their origins were not even from God as was the God of Judaism and Christianity. God did not reveal himself to Mohammad or Joseph Smith. Either they made everything up themselves, or an evil spirit revealed it to them. Either way, the result is a false religion, taught by false teachers, about a false God.

Merely claiming their God is the same God as our God doesn't make it so. Merely saying their God and our God created the universe and Adam and Eve doesn't make it the same God. They have a false God. I have no idea why you are defending Islam as believing in the true God. No I don't think the God of Mormonism is the true God. No I don't think the God of Jehovah's Witnesses is the true God. No I don't think the God of the Way is the True God. They are all false Gods dressed up to look like the true God, but they are idols.

The modern Jew believes in a God quite unlike the ancient Jew, and certainly different from the Christian conception of God. Modern Rabbinic Judaism owes as much to its faith to the Talmud as it does the Torah, perhaps moreso. Most Jews today believe that all people will eventually go to heaven. That there is no such thing as original sin, and that there is no need for a redeemer. When I went to my local synagogue the Rabbi taught that Jews rarely bother praying for their personal needs, because God rarely intervenes anyways, but that prayer is done primarily as an expression of worship for who He is despite that fact. They adamantly reject that Jesus is the son of God, and despise the concept of the trinity. Many Jews believe that Christians worship a different god than they do in just the same fashion that you believe Muslims worship a different god than you do.

You've compartmentalized the modern day Jewish conception of God as somehow utterly different from that of a Muslim (or Way believer), even though the modern Jewish conception of God is in many ways radically different from the Christian conception, and the excuse that it's okay to do so because of origins doesn't strike me as very convincing. It does not seem to me to be a foolproof way of knowing whether or not someone worships or does not worship the same god as you do. When Paul stood before the Areopagus and observed that the Athenians had created an alter to an unknown god, he jumped on the chance to witness to the pagan Athenians by drawing a connection between the god they worshipped, and the one true God. But even if we went with the origin of how God was revealed to the non-Christian; the Muslim, the Mormon, the Jehovah Witness, and the Way believer will all tell you that the origin of God's revelation goes back to Abraham, and Moses, and Elijah, and Jesus. So, again, this isn't a foolproof way of determining if we share the same god or not.



I'm beginning to notice a bit of a strawmanning going on too. This idea that somehow I'm defending Islam, or that I believe that Islam and Christian type cults are not satanic. Of course I believe they are satanic. But the nature of satan's lies is to mix in the truth and then distort it. All good lies have a basis in truth. And no, I'm not defending Islam. But I am interested in evangelism to Muslims. Good evangelism means being wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove. It means finding common ground and points of relatability without compromising the truth. That's where my heart is at, not at letting false idols get away with being false, but by helping people to come to a knowledge of Jesus Christ and his gospel message as I eventually came to a knowledge of Jesus Christ and his gospel message.

[Adrift]

2 John 1:



1Corinthians 1:



Anything more or less is a different Christ, a different gospel, and there is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved.

Do you find it worth your time to witness to those who have a different Christ and a different Gospel or do you not receive them into your house?

[noikodee]

Lets assume all believe Christians and muslims worship the same god.But if we are to find out on the day of judgement that Quran is not from god and is from satan Does it still mean they worshiped the same god?

[Adrift]

Which is the reason that I would say modern Jews don't worship the same God as Christians.

This is an interesting admission, and one I respect at least for its consistency. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.

[Adrift]

Lets assume all believe Christians and muslims worship the same god.But if we are to find out on the day of judgement that Quran is not from god and is from satan Does it still mean they worshiped the same god?

I believe the Quran is obviously satanic. Nothing I've said here should leave anyone thinking that I believe Islam is anything but a lie straight from satan, but as I say above, the foundation of a good lie is the truth.

[noikodee]

I believe the Quran is obviously satanic. Nothing I've said here should leave anyone thinking that I believe Islam is anything but a lie straight from satan, but as I say above, the foundation of a good lie is the truth.

If the foundation is based on lies how can the worship of god be the same than? Jews got their scripture from jewish prophets and that was the truth.Jesus agreed with jewish scriptures.He never said that their scripture is corrupt.Than his disciples wrote the gospel who were jewish too and based on that people starting worshiping god in spirit and in truth and than christianity flourished with those scriptures .
Now the bigger question if a scripture is a lie can the worship be the same.If tomorrow a man writes a new scripture and uses the biblical words like ''God who knows everything'' ''All loving'' . ..''The one true merciful god God of Abraham moses''.And than go on to say Jesus is the prophet of his God..How many of you are going to believe in that One true God claiming to be god of abraham?. A mans faith is based on scripture.Jews got their scripture and they worshiped god through it but denied God when he came in flesh.Christians got their scripture through God himself and they worshiped God in spriit and in truth that is the ''father Son and holy spirit''.Muslims got their scripture from allah who denied Jesus as his son,denied being a father,denied the divinity of Jesus, denied the divinity of holy spirit...He got confused that Mary is the 3rd part of the trinity.and he thought arch angel gabriel is holy spirit. Jesus of the gospel says if you know me you know the father.But in the quran that allah is asking for justification from jesus of the quran asking if he said ''worship me or my mother as god''. Even if the True Jesus of The Gospel had said something wrong in the gospel i dont think the father will ask for justification. Since Jesus knows the father and the father knows jesus.

[mossrose]

Do you find it worth your time to witness to those who have a different Christ and a different Gospel or do you not receive them into your house?

If they come to my house I don't let them in.

I have plenty of other opportunities to tell people about Christ crucified without inviting Jw's and Mormons in when they knock on my door.

[Sparko]

The modern Jew believes in a God quite unlike the ancient Jew, and certainly different from the Christian conception of God. Modern Rabbinic Judaism owes as much to its faith to the Talmud as it does the Torah, perhaps moreso. Most Jews today believe that all people will eventually go to heaven. That there is no such thing as original sin, and that there is no need for a redeemer. When I went to my local synagogue the Rabbi taught that Jews rarely bother praying for their personal needs, because God rarely intervenes anyways, but that prayer is done primarily as an expression of worship for who He is despite that fact. They adamantly reject that Jesus is the son of God, and despise the concept of the trinity. Many Jews believe that Christians worship a different god than they do in just the same fashion that you believe Muslims worship a different god than you do.

You've compartmentalized the modern day Jewish conception of God as somehow utterly different from that of a Muslim (or Way believer), even though the modern Jewish conception of God is in many ways radically different from the Christian conception, and the excuse that it's okay to do so because of origins doesn't strike me as very convincing. It does not seem to me to be a foolproof way of knowing whether or not someone worships or does not worship the same god as you do. When Paul stood before the Areopagus and observed that the Athenians had created an alter to an unknown god, he jumped on the chance to witness to the pagan Athenians by drawing a connection between the god they worshipped, and the one true God. But even if we went with the origin of how God was revealed to the non-Christian; the Muslim, the Mormon, the Jehovah Witness, and the Way believer will all tell you that the origin of God's revelation goes back to Abraham, and Moses, and Elijah, and Jesus. So, again, this isn't a foolproof way of determining if we share the same god or not.



I'm beginning to notice a bit of a strawmanning going on too. This idea that somehow I'm defending Islam, or that I believe that Islam and Christian type cults are not satanic. Of course I believe they are satanic. But the nature of satan's lies is to mix in the truth and then distort it. All good lies have a basis in truth. And no, I'm not defending Islam. But I am interested in evangelism to Muslims. Good evangelism means being wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove. It means finding common ground and points of relatability without compromising the truth. That's where my heart is at, not at letting false idols get away with being false, but by helping people to come to a knowledge of Jesus Christ and his gospel message as I eventually came to a knowledge of Jesus Christ and his gospel message.

I was talking about the God of Judaism and the God of Christianity. They are the same. Whether the God that modern Jews is the same one they worshiped 2000 years ago is another story. I don't know. I suspect it is not. When you keep a name and some stories but the God you believe in is in truth nothing like the God in the bible, then you are worshiping a false God. Period.

If Satan is behind Islam, and he uses truth mixed with lies to create a new religion which worships a God that is not the God of the bible, then that is a false God. Just because they keep some basics, like he created the universe (in a different way than the bible) and created man, does not make it the same God.

You completely ignored most of my post explaining that to you (G Washington for example) and you are burning straw here not me. And yes you ARE defending Islam. You are saying they worship the same God as I do. No they don't. They might claim they do, they might think they do, but the God of the Koran is NOT the God of the Bible.

[Adrift]

If the foundation is based on lies how can the worship of god be the same than?

Nowhere have I stated that the worship of god between the Muslim and the Christian is the same.

A mans faith is based on scripture

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Jews reject the New Testament. Mormons, Jehovah' Witnesses, Way believers, and a number of other Christian cults accept both the Old and New Testament. Some say they accept the Bible explicitly as the sole divinely inspired revelation of God.

[Sparko]

I believe the Quran is obviously satanic. Nothing I've said here should leave anyone thinking that I believe Islam is anything but a lie straight from satan, but as I say above, the foundation of a good lie is the truth.

The end result is a lie.

If I said I worshiped the God of Abraham, who created the universe in 7 days, who made adam and eve, who is the most evil being in existence, who hates good and loves evil and wants us to commit murder in his name and sacrifice babies on fires. Would I be worshiping the same God as you? Hey it started with the truth, he did create the universe and adam and eve and is the God of Abraham, so it must be the same God you believe in right?

[noikodee]

[/QUOTE]I don't think that's necessarily the case. Jews reject the New Testament. Mormons, Jehovah' Witnesses, Way believers, and a number of other Christian cults accept both the Old and New Testament. Some say they accept the Bible explicitly as the sole divinely inspired revelation of God.[/QUOTE]

Jews rejects the NT because they dont believe Jesus to be God. If mormons jehovahs witnesses etc believe in Father Son and holy spirit and believe in the gospel scripture They worship the same God and if they only believe the father and not believe the son and holy spirit than its just that they dont know who God is and have created their rules regarding god. If one denies the scripture than everything falls apart.. If there were no scriptures, today christianity wouldn't have existed.

[Adrift]

You completely ignored most of my post explaining that to you (G Washington for example) and you are burning straw here not me.

I ignored it because the analogy is not a very good one. As I see it, the Muslim's first American president is a guy named Geoffrey Washington. He was a white male, born in Virginia in the 18th century, who is said to have chopped down a peach tree and told a white lie about it. He married a woman named Mary, had a mouth full of cork teeth, had two terms in office, but was refused a third because of rumors of corruption. Despite his corruption he is considered a founding father, the first president, and he died on December 14th of food poisoning rather than a throat infection.

Any historian could look back at this description of "Geoffrey" and make the connection that the Muslim was, in fact, referring to George Washington. They obviously mistook or distorted the facts when referring to this first US president, but there's no denying who they're really referring to.

And yes you ARE defending Islam. You are saying they worship the same God as I do. No they don't. They might claim they do, they might think they do, but the God of the Koran is NOT the God of the Bible.

Claiming that Muslims and Christians worship the same God is no more a defense of Islam than claiming that an orthodox Jew and a Christian worship the same God.

[Sparko]

I ignored it because the analogy is not a very good one. As I see it, the Muslim's first American president is a guy named Geoffrey Washington. He was a white male, born in Virginia in the 18th century, who is said to have chopped down a peach tree and told a white lie about it. He married a woman named Mary, had a mouth full of cork teeth, had two terms in office, but was refused a third because of rumors of corruption. Despite his corruption he is considered a founding father, the first president, and he died on December 14th of food poisoning rather than a throat infection.

Any historian could look back at this description of "Geoffrey" and make the connection that the Muslim was, in fact, referring to George Washington. They obviously mistook or distorted the facts when referring to this first US president, but there's no denying who they're really referring to.

except the mormons change a lot more than the name, they change the facts and nature of "Goeffrey" - They say God was a man, that Jesus is his physical son, because God had sex with Mary, and that we are his spiritual children because he has sex with a Mother God in heaven and we can become Gods just like him. That is more like my analogy where George is not even a man but a black woman who has an entirely different life and the only similarity is the name. That is what both Islam and Mormonism do. The God that they worship is nothing like the God of the bible.

God did not start their religions, Satan did. God did start Judaism and Christianity. So how can a religion started by Satan be worshiping the one true God?

[Adrift]

The end result is a lie.

If I said I worshiped the God of Abraham, who created the universe in 7 days, who made adam and eve, who is the most evil being in existence, who hates good and loves evil and wants us to commit murder in his name and sacrifice babies on fires. Would I be worshiping the same God as you? Hey it started with the truth, he did create the universe and adam and eve and is the God of Abraham, so it must be the same God you believe in right?

No, I'm not going to play the hypothetical gotcha game. If you think that there exists an actual religious community with this set of beliefs, then present them.

[Sparko]

No, I'm not going to play the hypothetical gotcha game. If you think that there exists an actual religious community with this set of beliefs, then present them.

I am using an extreme example to try to get you to see that when your entire idea of God is different from that of the bible that you are not worshiping the same God any longer. Islam denies most of the bible except for a few stories, and Allah has a completely different nature from YHWH. He is not the same God. He is a false God invented by Satan, dressed up to look superficially like the God of the bible.

Open. Your. Eyes.