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orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

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Knowing for sure one is going to heaven

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  • #301
    1. Luke 16 does not state that Abraham was in Hades. It says he was in Paradise.

    2. I don't think Hebrews 11 is saying that Christians have received anything that Abraham did not. If that were so, then Christians would not need faith. And that would negate the point of the chapter.

    3. I agree that Abraham was not dead.

    Comment

    • #302
      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
      1. Luke 16 does not state that Abraham was in Hades. It says he was in Paradise.

      2. I don't think Hebrews 11 is saying that Christians have received anything that Abraham did not. If that were so, then Christians would not need faith. And that would negate the point of the chapter.

      3. I agree that Abraham was not dead.
      What do believers have that make them greater than John the Baptist , who was the greatest of all who were born of woman , before Christ was sent?

      Comment

      • #303
        Appealing to unclear verses will not prove your position, Footwasher.

        Comment

        • #304
          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
          1. Luke 16 does not state that Abraham was in Hades. It says he was in Paradise.
          It does not say Abraham was in Paradise. That it was Paradise is interpreted being the upper compartment of Hades is based on Christ dying going to Paradise that day [from on the cross], and His soul not being left in Hades.

          ". . . To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." -- Luke 23:43.


          ". . . that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham . . . ." -- Luke 16:22, 23.

          ". . . For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell [Sheol], . . ." -- Deuteronomy 32:22.

          ". . . Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. . . ." -- Luke 16:29.

          ". . . thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [Sheol, Hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. . . . He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." -- Acts 2:27, 31.
          Last edited by 37818; 05-22-2014, 11:07 PM.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment

          • #305
            Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
            Appealing to unclear verses will not prove your position, Footwasher.
            Last edited by footwasher; 05-22-2014, 11:28 PM.

            Comment

            • #306
              @37818

              I don't think Christ was in paradise when he died. The comma could arguably arise after "today." Otherwise, it is possible that Jesus is referencing that the thief will be with him in the sense of being with God in paradise.

              Comment

              • #307
                Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                @37818

                I don't think Christ was in paradise when he died. The comma could arguably arise after "today." Otherwise, it is possible that Jesus is referencing that the thief will be with him in the sense of being with God in paradise.
                +

                Which translations or translators does this? Thanks.


                . . . αμην λεγω σοι σημερον μετ εμου εση εν τω παραδεισω

                αμην - From the Hebrew, Amen - most certainly
                λεγω - say
                σοι - to you
                σημερον - this day
                μετ - with
                εμου - me
                εση - you shall be
                εν - in
                τω - the [not translated]
                παραδεισω - paradise [transliterated]
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment

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