Why do Liberals Have to Make it About Race?

[Jaecp]

Isn't the quote from the OP from another thread about race?

This is bizarre.

[Starlight]

Many of us believe Obama is making a lot of really bad decisions, and is wrong on many points. Not because he's black, but because he's a far left socialist liberal.

I think a lot of people upon seeing the claim that Obama's a 'far left socialist liberal' think "well that's completely false, so that can't be the reason they're against Obama, there must be some other real reason that they feel they can't admit... maybe it's racism?" I think what the observers are not factoring in is the US right-wing media's ability to brainwash people into truly believing that Obama is a Kenyan-born, Muslim, far left socialist liberal, dictator, who issues illegal orders on a regular basis, and who wants to destroy America. And they don't realize that the US right-wing media would smear any Democrat president in similar ways, because the US right-wing media is out of control and has lost all touch with reality and to them politics is all about 'us vs them' and the facts are irrelevant.

In other words, people reasonably tend to assume racism is the only motivation visceral enough to motivate people to attack Obama in the ways they do, but they don't factor stupidity and brainwashing into their equation nearly enough.

[Darth Executor]

More like you're too dumb to understand tribalism.

[Darth Ovious]

A classic example....



Why is it that liberals seem to have to make it about race, even when it isn't? Many of us believe Obama is making a lot of really bad decisions, and is wrong on many points. Not because he's black, but because he's a far left socialist liberal.

he is also trigger happy with an executive order gun he seems to possess.

[Darth Ovious]

I think a lot of people upon seeing the claim that Obama's a 'far left socialist liberal' think "well that's completely false, so that can't be the reason they're against Obama, there must be some other real reason that they feel they can't admit... maybe it's racism?" I think what the observers are not factoring in is the US right-wing media's ability to brainwash people into truly believing that Obama is a Kenyan-born, Muslim, far left socialist liberal, dictator, who issues illegal orders on a regular basis, and who wants to destroy America. And they don't realize that the US right-wing media would smear any Democrat president in similar ways, because the US right-wing media is out of control and has lost all touch with reality and to them politics is all about 'us vs them' and the facts are irrelevant.

In other words, people reasonably tend to assume racism is the only motivation visceral enough to motivate people to attack Obama in the ways they do, but they don't factor stupidity and brainwashing into their equation nearly enough.

No offence, but some of us are not from America and there is still plenty of reason to criticise Obama. A lot of people in the UK would criticise him for some of the things he does in America. He is even too left wing for us to take.

[Starlight]

No offence, but some of us are not from America and there is still plenty of reason to criticise Obama. A lot of people in the UK would criticise him for some of the things he does in America. He is even too left wing for us to take.

You write some complete nonsense sometimes. Obama too left wing for the UK?
Give me two examples of policy areas where Obama is further left than the UK. I can think of zero.

[Cow Poke]

A good man once said:

Yeah, unfortunately, that was shortly before he F-bombed the place, and sent PMs to some of us filled with hate and nasty language.

[Cow Poke]

I think a lot of people upon seeing the claim that Obama's a 'far left socialist liberal' think "well that's completely false, so that can't be the reason they're against Obama, there must be some other real reason that they feel they can't admit... maybe it's racism?"

Those would be the people who seem to constantly think of things in terms of race, I suppose. If I don't like something a black person did, it quite obviously must be because he's black.

Reminds me of the first time I was personally accused of racism. I was arresting a young black man who had smashed the window of an electronics store, and had two TVs in his back seat, and was carrying a third one out the window toward his car.

He actually said, as I was handcuffing him, "the only reason you're arresting me is cause I'm black!"

[Darth Ovious]

You write some complete nonsense sometimes. Obama too left wing for the UK?
Give me two examples of policy areas where Obama is further left than the UK.

Well firstly, the dear colleague letter that was sent to campuses warning them that their funding would stop if they didn't conduct kangaroo courts to throw people out of said campuses based upon hearsay allegations.

Other examples include.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.185577

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...oure-evil.html

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...e-stance-obama

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10414727.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-prove-it.html

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...rships-the-eu/

http://dailysignal.com/2012/06/06/ba...nt-to-britain/

I can think of zero.

Well I suppose it helps when you're an American who has no clue about British politics. You wanted two examples and the most two undeniable examples are:

1) Obama's criticism of BP.

2) The issue of the Falkland Islands.

I could have went into more detail but this should suffice.

[Starlight]

Well firstly, the dear colleague letter that was sent to campuses warning them that their funding would stop if they didn't conduct kangaroo courts to throw people out of said campuses based upon hearsay allegations.

I have literally no idea what you are referring to.

Other examples include.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.185577

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...oure-evil.html

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...e-stance-obama

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10414727.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-prove-it.html

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...rships-the-eu/

http://dailysignal.com/2012/06/06/ba...nt-to-britain/

Is this a completely random compilation of what came up on google when you searched for UK and Obama? These seem to be completely irrelevant links... most of these don't mention any issues whatsoever that Americans would regard as 'left' vs 'right'.

Well I suppose it helps when you're an American who has no clue about British politics.

I'm from New Zealand. I have some knowledge of British politics, but I don't follow it nearly as closely as I do NZ or American politics, so there may be a few quirks in the British political spectrum I'm not aware of or some particular details I'm wrong about.

You wanted two examples and the most two undeniable examples are:

1) Obama's criticism of BP.

2) The issue of the Falkland Islands.

Well I deny that either of these are examples of being left-wing. Taking any particular view on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, just like taking a view on Britain's relationship with the EU (which many of your links dealt with), isn't in and of itself inherently a left-wing or right-wing thing to do. Obviously certain political parties within Britain have strong views on these matters, and those political parties might be rated 'left-wing' or 'right-wing' due to their views on other matters. But from an international standpoint, there's no general association between being left/right wing on economic or social issues and any particular view about sovereignty of the Falklands or relationships with the EU... none of the left or right wing parties in the US, or NZ, or Australia, or Canada, have any views on those sorts of matters... so I don't even know how to begin categorizing a certain view of the Falkland's sovereignty as 'left' or 'right' wing...

Obama's criticized BP? Being tough on crime is right-wing. Environmentalism is left-wing. A company broke the law and was punished. It's hard to say whether to call that "right-wing" or "left-wing". But the problem that most of your linked articles seem to have with it boils down to: "It was a British company, waaah!" Give me a break. That's not the British finding fault with Obama for him being too "left-wing", that's the British finding fault with Obama for not being nice enough to them and their favorite company of the month. And, furthermore, Obama is hardly renowned for actually being strong on punishing companies that act criminally. Banks in America have managed to wreck the global economy, and launder money for everyone from Mexican drug cartels to sanctioned countries to al qaeda, and do many and various other criminal acts, and despite widespread support for criminal prosecutions and jail time, the Obama administration has given them repeated slaps on the wrist with a wet bus ticket.

The things you're talking about just don't register on the American spectrum as being 'left' vs 'right' issues. But let's consider something that does: Healthcare. You and I take for granted that the government runs the healthcare system. But in America, they don't have that. I understand that in last election in the UK there were some fears that the right was wanting to privatize some parts of the NHS. That was viewed as unacceptable right-wing extremism by most in the UK, as it would be here also. But in the US, they are much much further to the right than that, and nearly everything is privately run, and unsurprisingly it's a complete disaster and they waste tons and tons of money as a result. Obama was portrayed by the right-wing media in America as a "socialist" and left-wing extremist for taking some baby steps towards the kind of healthcare system we have, but still falling far far short of ours, and still having private industry running every single part of the system. If he tried to implement his healthcare plans in the UK or NZ, there would be riots in the streets and the government would be overthrown due to his plans being unacceptably insane right-wing extremism. That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of when I say that Obama is so far to the right that he doesn't even register on the political spectrum of the UK or NZ... no political parties in either country would endorse his policies on the issue, as they would view them as too right-wing.

[shunyadragon]

It's their try hard bread and butter. Don't have an answer to a problem? Scream "racism everywhere!" and that will fix it.

Nobody that I know of is screaming 'racism everywhere.' I hear a lot screaming here from the conservative Twebbers that there is 'no racism anywhere.'

[shunyadragon]

I didn't generalize - I was specifically addressing Obama.

You were generalizing about Obama, who was elected by a majority of Americans, and endorsed by the Democratic Party. This sort of generalizations goes further than you are implying here. Back pedaling?

Racism is most definitely a factor in much of the opposition to Obama.

[rogue06]

Nobody that I know of is screaming 'racism everywhere.' I hear a lot screaming here from the conservative Twebbers that there is 'no racism anywhere.'

False. They're just pointing out that it isn't as bad as you are trying to pretend what with your claiming that it was worse during the 80s and 90s than it was during the era of Jim Crow laws, lynchings and the height of the KKK.

[Starlight]

Those would be the people who seem to constantly think of things in terms of race, I suppose.

I think real and actual racism really exists in America and its not just all in the minds of those who are concerned about it. Sure, they sometimes might make the mistake of seeing racism in instances where there actually was none, but by and large they aren't imagining it entirely.

If I don't like something a black person did, it quite obviously must be because he's black.

If you express a seemingly unreasonable level of severe mistrust / dislike / hatred towards a black person for no apparent good reason, the idea that it might be due to racism seems an entirely plausible idea. The fact that the strong level of opposition arose rapidly after the election of a black president, and came from areas of the country that had historically had the most severe issues with race, supported that view in the eyes of many.

I remember reading an analysis written by a reporter about the Tea Party when they first arose. The reporter had started out assuming that what motivated the Tea Party was largely racism, but after talking to people within the Tea Party they'd concluded that it wasn't racism motivating them but rather false ideas about reality - the Tea Party supporters believed a long list of false ideas about what Obama was doing and saying and standing for. (Although, it would be possible to argue their belief in these false ideas might be the result of concealed racism - that they were open to believing bad things about a black president in a way that they would never have been about a white president) But by and large the reporter simply concluded that the Tea Party supporters had been listening to lots of right-wing media which had been telling them all sorts of false things and as a result they were really upset about what they perceived Obama to be doing and intending to do.

I was arresting a young black man who had smashed the window of an electronics store, and had two TVs in his back seat, and was carrying a third one out the window toward his car.

He actually said, as I was handcuffing him, "the only reason you're arresting me is cause I'm black!"

That exchange would make sense in a context where other people were committing similar crimes. Was this in New Orleans after Katrina or similar? His point would be "the only reason you're arresting me rather than other people doing the same crime, eg those white guys over there, is because I'm black". Having a good reason to arrest him, and the choice to arrest him specifically being racially motivated, are not mutually exclusive. There was a case in the news here recently, of a number of people being drunk and disorderly in public and the police arbitrarily picked on one of them and left the others alone and bystanders were a bit shocked because it seemed rather arbitrary and looked like the choice of police target might have been racially motivated (which is fairly big news here, because that kind of problem just doesn't really exist here to remotely the same degree it does in the US).

[shunyadragon]

False. They're just pointing out that it isn't as bad as you are trying to pretend what with your claiming that it was worse during the 80s and 90s than it was during the era of Jim Crow laws, lynchings and the height of the KKK.

Quoting me out od context as usual, by the way lunchings have continued since the 1960s including a very high rate of false imprisonment of Blacks. By the way the Klan, along with the Sons of the Confederacy marched in Hillsborough, NC Saturday. A very large crowd. double

http://abc11.com/news/confederate-fl...-crowd/913096/

Still waiting for your justification of Gooney Bird load dumping posts concerning stereotyping . . .