Lowering the Confederate Flag - and Wally World

[fm93]

Because some people like the attention in generates.

I'm guessing you're referring to instances like made-up reports of hate crimes, but if so, wouldn't those be cases of someone lying about being hurt, rather than deliberately seeking to be hurt?

People cut themselves and do all sorts of painful things to themselves, despite it being a very unpleasant and painful experience.

From what I've heard from ex-cutters, such people tend to be motivated along these lines of thought:


1) I am so depressed that I feel dead/numb to the world, and cutting myself makes me feel alive again.

2) I am so depressed that I can't bring myself to talk to anyone about it, but cutting myself could serve as a cry for help.


In regard to 1), the issue seems to be that the cutting carries a positive feeling alongside the physical pain. With 2), the issue seems to be that the person is undergoing a temporary, lesser pain as a cry for relief from a longer-lasting, deeper pain. But how do these apply to someone who "looks for excuses to be offended?" What is the positive feeling that accompanies the unpleasant experience and makes it worthwhile? Or what is the deeper pain that's so intense that it drives people to emotionally hurt themselves as a cry for help?

And besides, as I already noted, such people seem to be rare, whereas Adrift and others have implied that the "looking to be offended" phenomenon is somewhat common.

[lilpixieofterror]

I'm guessing you're referring to instances like made-up reports of hate crimes, but if so, wouldn't those be cases of someone lying about being hurt, rather than deliberately seeking to be hurt?

Not at all because if people are willing to cut themselves, poison themselves, etc, for attention. What makes you seriously believe they are not going to look for an offense, where none is met? Are you seriously saying it is impossible for people to look for excuses to be offended? People don't just lie about being hurt FM, they sometimes hurt themselves, on purpose, because they like the attention in generates. Is it logical? Not at all, but nobody said humans are always logical.

From what I've heard from ex-cutters, such people tend to be motivated along these lines of thought:


1) I am so depressed that I feel dead/numb to the world, and cutting myself makes me feel alive again.

2) I am so depressed that I can't bring myself to talk to anyone about it, but cutting myself could serve as a cry for help.


In regard to 1), the issue seems to be that the cutting carries a positive feeling alongside the physical pain. With 2), the issue seems to be that the person is undergoing a temporary, lesser pain as a cry for relief from a longer-lasting, deeper pain. But how do these apply to someone who "looks for excuses to be offended?" What is the positive feeling that accompanies the unpleasant experience and makes it worthwhile? Or what is the deeper pain that's so intense that it drives people to emotionally hurt themselves as a cry for help?

And you miss the point. If people are willing to physically hurt themselves, even though it is an obviously painful and even life threaten experience; what makes you think they are not willing to find excuses to claim offense, for reasons like depression or attention seeking?

And besides, as I already noted, such people seem to be rare, whereas Adrift and others have implied that the "looking to be offended" phenomenon is somewhat common.

Rare? Might want to tell this guy that:

"How common is it? Much more common than it used to be. Studies from the 1990's suggested rates of 3% or lower. But more recent studies suggest that as many as one in five girls between 10 and 18 years of age are now cutting themselves with razor blades or burning themselves with matches, etc. For example, researchers at Yale University recently reported (link is external) that 56% of the 10- to 14-year-old girls they interviewed reported engaging in NSSI at some point in their lifetime, including 36% in the past year. I know of no community survey of boys in any age group which approaches that kind of prevalence."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ing-themselves

Bottom line is that people engage in behaviors, that can be self destructive behaviors, for a wide range of reasons that may not include depression or even attention seeking (while some do). Again, if people are willing to cut themselves and even cause life threatening injuries, to themselves, why do you seriously believe nobody would seek excuses to be offended?

[Catholicity]

I know several black people, who see the flag as a symbol of state rights (they are mostly from the south). If you haven't noticed yet, symbols can take on dual or even triple meanings and mean several things to several people.

yeah me too and yeah they are. it shouldn't be a big secret that southerners have fewer issues with racism than the rest of the country. The only times I've seen it openly were when I moved out of the South. The south has the most diverse areas, where as the rest of the country does not.

[Adrift]

yeah me too and yeah they are. it shouldn't be a big secret that southerners have fewer issues with racism than the rest of the country. The only times I've seen it openly were when I moved out of the South. The south has the most diverse areas, where as the rest of the country does not.

That's...huh. That's not something you usually hear. I never lived in the South, but I had black friends in the military from the South, and their stories were pretty shocking. I once jokingly said something like "hey boy" to one of my pals from N. Florida. He got this really serious look on his face and said "Don't call me boy!" When he realized my complete confusion to what seemed to me a non-slight, he broke it down for me how "boy" was often used to make people feel insignificant and beneath them. I had another friend from deep Alabama. Well, he wasn't my friend at first. He didn't trust me. Didn't trust any white folks. Was raised to believe that white folks were the devil. Long work hours during our shifts together talking about...well...mostly about how people are people, and how God loves us all regardless of our color...eventually he warmed up to me.

Being raised in mostly black and mixed Hispanic neighborhoods on the East Coast, and the Midwest, I never ever experienced that sort of cautiousness and nervousness about white people as I had with my black Southern friends in the military. So, I don't know. Maybe they were the exception, or maybe it runs deeper than a lot of white people in the South realize...

[JimL]

I know several black people, who see the flag as a symbol of state rights (they are mostly from the south). If you haven't noticed yet, symbols can take on dual or even triple meanings and mean several things to several people.

The Confederate flag is symbolic of only one thing and that one thing is white supremacy. After the war, the flag became irrelevent, it was no longer used or flown at state capitals as sybolic of anything. It wasn't until 1956, in Alabama, after the Brown vs the board of education decision that the then racist Governor George c. Wallace had it raised as a symbol of defiance to that court order. And those who want to argue the flag to be a symbol of southern heritage or some other such nonsense should explain exactly what that heritage was that they hold so near and dear to their hearts. The war was fought over the right of white supremacists in the southern states to continue their practice of slavery. It was wrong, they lost, so there is nothing to glorify in either them or their flag.

[mossrose]

It's really too bad that all the focus following the tragedy is on the Confederate flag instead of those who have had to deal with the shooting.

How do we get so far away from the things that are really important?

[Jedidiah]

Adrift, have you ever felt insulted, hurt, offended by someone or something? If so, you realize that it's a deeply unpleasant (and depending on the context and magnitude, sometimes deeply painful) experience, right? Given this, why would anyone WANT to undergo an unpleasant, painful experience like that? Why would anyone consciously "look for an excuse" to feel pained? I realize that some people--masochists--apparently are drawn to pain, but such a condition appears to be quite rare, while you and others have been implying that the phenomenon of "looking for excuses to feel offended" is somewhat common.

That is pure baloney. Everyone has been insulted or offended by something. Ever hear of "water off a ducks back?"

[Adrift]

It's really too bad that all the focus following the tragedy is on the Confederate flag instead of those who have had to deal with the shooting.

How do we get so far away from the things that are really important?

Again, why not both?

[KingsGambit]

Here's a good example of the mindset of finding something to be offended about: The huge backlash among African-Americans against Hillary Clinton for saying "all lives matter" instead of "black lives matter". I really hope nobody tries to argue that Clinton is in the wrong here.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpo...l-lives-matter

[KingsGambit]

Meanwhile, Russell Moore, ethics director of the Southern Baptist Convention, has weighed in against the Confederate flag:

http://www.russellmoore.com/2015/06/...federate-flag/

I think he makes a good argument based on the biblical principle of the stumbling block; that it is a stumbling block for many black Americans so we would do well to move away from it. (Yes, I know, it's not the exact application of Paul's principle, but it's a good analogy.)

[Adrift]

Here's a good example of the mindset of finding something to be offended about: The huge backlash among African-Americans against Hillary Clinton for saying "all lives matter" instead of "black lives matter". I really hope nobody tries to argue that Clinton is in the wrong here.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpo...l-lives-matter

Think DE already brought that one up. I think another great example can be found in the Louis Theroux documentary on Black Nationalism where he interviews Al Sharpton, Khalid Abdul Muhammad, and some Black Hebrew Israelites.

[KingsGambit]

Think DE already brought that one up. I think another great example can be found in the Louis Theroux documentary on Black Nationalism where he interviews Al Sharpton, Khalid Abdul Muhammad, and some Black Hebrew Israelites.

Oops. I'll just be honest, I work overnight shifts and if a thread blows up this much while I'm at work, I usually don't read through it all.

[Cow Poke]

The Confederate flag is symbolic of only one thing and that one thing is white supremacy.

Wow. So, The Dukes of Hazard must have been the most racist show on TV!

[Cow Poke]

It's really too bad that all the focus following the tragedy is on the Confederate flag instead of those who have had to deal with the shooting.

How do we get so far away from the things that are really important?

I thought about that last night in our prayer group - a room very similar to the one in which those people were murdered.

Satan is having fun with all the diversion of attention from the grace and beauty of the Christians of Mother Emanuel to, instead, a piece of cloth.

[Bill the Cat]

Wow. So, The Dukes of Hazard must have been the most racist show on TV!

Cooter doesn't think so and HE'S a Democrat.