Ireland recovering from Theocracy.

[Sam]

You mean like when I said:

"Sometimes this might mean we need to change such as getting rid of slavery or dealing with racism. Sometimes we need to stick to our guns such as attempts wipe out the family unit."

See, the issue many have with gay marriage has nothing to do with hatred of gays or anything like it, it has to do with something else.

And the issue many have with gay marriage on the other side of the coin has nothing to do with hatred of families or love loose morals.

So the question is whether this is one of those issues to "stick to our guns" and, if so, for what purpose. I can understand the biblical or theological arguments; I can not understand the "wipe out the family unit" arguments.

[lilpixieofterror]

Tradition must be cemented in something applicable to the 'here and now' in order for it to remain. Simply being tradition or being something that we've always done a certain way is not to me satisfactory, especially given that the world is changing whether we like it or not. Some things remain, others go away, while others still are discarded and then brought back.

While progress is not always good, tradition is not always justified.

You mean like when I said:

"Sometimes this might mean we need to change such as getting rid of slavery or dealing with racism. Sometimes we need to stick to our guns such as attempts wipe out the family unit."

See, the issue many have with gay marriage has nothing to do with hatred of gays or anything like it, it has to do with something else.

[Sea of red]

Tradition must be cemented in something applicable to the 'here and now' in order for it to remain. Simply being tradition or being something that we've always done a certain way is not to me satisfactory, especially given that the world is changing whether we like it or not. Some things remain, others go away, while others still are discarded and then brought back.

While progress is not always good, tradition is not always justified.

[lilpixieofterror]

A man who is not constrained from within must be constrained from without.

Always great to remember. I think GK Chesterton nails it when he says:

“Progress should mean that we are always changing the world to fit the vision, instead we are always changing the vision.”

The bit problem I've noticed with our cult of progress is the total lack of vision. We Christians have a vision, to try to make ourselves and the world more like Christ would like it to be. Sometimes this might mean we need to change such as getting rid of slavery or dealing with racism. Sometimes we need to stick to our guns such as attempts wipe out the family unit. Something our friends seem to fail to understand. Progress, without any sort of vision to go with it, seems to end in failure.

[Cow Poke]

Hummm, you mean like the Russians 'trusted' the communist revolution to bring about change from the oppressive ways of the czars and ended up being worse than the czars ever were? Progress, without vision, doesn't seem to work out very well for anybody.

A man who is not constrained from within must be constrained from without.

[lilpixieofterror]

Some good points there, LPOT. The question of where we are headed is interesting but I do not think we should be fearful because the zeitgeist is ultimately an expression of human nature and I think we are entitled to trust ourselves to do the right thing, collectively.

Hummm, you mean like the Russians 'trusted' the communist revolution to bring about change from the oppressive ways of the czars and ended up being worse than the czars ever were? Progress, without vision, doesn't seem to work out very well for anybody. While your blind faith is both amusing and scary, one of the major problems of your cult of progress is that it ignores the bad of human nature and only pretends it is the good that exist. There's plenty of examples, just is the 20th century alone, of a whole lot of very bad and horrible things happening in the name of progress to prove that progress, without any sort of real goal, doesn't seem to ever work out. Your cult of progress, doesn't seem to understand even the basics of human nature.

[firstfloor]

Another mindless rant, brought to you buy FF. Anyway, I'll try to answer your rambling answer of a post. Ever hear of the 'cult of progress'? You should look it up sometime, some interesting reading on the topic. The problem with your whole cult though is... "What are we progressing towards?" Something I doubt you can answer and if history has anything to say about it; we're not going to like your dreams of utopia one tiny bit because your dreams often end up being a nightmare. Another odd observation I notice about your post is that you forget that brakes are just as important to the safe operation of a vehicle as the gas peddle is. Trying to ditch your brakes and pretending you don't need them is quite revealing because it reveals your blind devotion towards the cult of progress without ever putting any thought into the latest and greatest ideas. Did you ever think that a society needs both its brakes and its gas peddle, to really work efficiently? Yet again, you seem to leap forward into battle, but never seem to think much through your 'arguments'.

Some good points there, LPOT. The question of where we are headed is interesting but I do not think we should be fearful because the zeitgeist is ultimately an expression of human nature and I think we are entitled to trust ourselves to do the right thing, collectively.

[Sam]

"Faux News," Comrade Tassman? I believe you're talking about MSNBC.

Same thing, different sides:

PJ_14.10.21_mediaPolarization-08.jpg

[DLAbaoaqu]

"Faux News," Comrade Tassman? I believe you're talking about MSNBC.

[Mountain Man]

You're forgetting, Sam will mindlessly defend anybody who is a liberal and will mindlessly attack anybody who is a conservative. Since Starlight is a liberal, Sam will mindless defend him. Nothing else matters.

Considering that Sam has basically outed himself as a nominal Christian who thinks the Bible got it wrong when it explicitly condemns homosexuality, his eagerness to sell his soul to defend the liberal agenda is hardly surprising.

[Mountain Man]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's going to be had for dinner.

And the follow-up to that:

Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

[Mountain Man]

'ere you go.

Iran is "right wing" in the same way that Obama is a "right-leaning moderate".

[lilpixieofterror]

No. Your agreement is not needed because what changes is the zeitgeist. You might not agree with it at any particular moment but it will nevertheless drag you along behind it at some, acceptable to conservatives, distance. The old nutter fogies drop off the end of the tail to die; their death helping to drive the whole thing forwards like releasing the brakes on your moped …. to a position that will allow us to tackle the next thorny problem.

Another mindless rant, brought to you buy FF. Anyway, I'll try to answer your rambling answer of a post. Ever hear of the 'cult of progress'? You should look it up sometime, some interesting reading on the topic. The problem with your whole cult though is... "What are we progressing towards?" Something I doubt you can answer and if history has anything to say about it; we're not going to like your dreams of utopia one tiny bit because your dreams often end up being a nightmare. Another odd observation I notice about your post is that you forget that brakes are just as important to the safe operation of a vehicle as the gas peddle is. Trying to ditch your brakes and pretending you don't need them is quite revealing because it reveals your blind devotion towards the cult of progress without ever putting any thought into the latest and greatest ideas. Did you ever think that a society needs both its brakes and its gas peddle, to really work efficiently? Yet again, you seem to leap forward into battle, but never seem to think much through your 'arguments'.

[firstfloor]

AKA 'Become enlightened and agree with me!'

No. Your agreement is not needed because what changes is the zeitgeist. You might not agree with it at any particular moment but it will nevertheless drag you along behind it at some, acceptable to conservatives, distance. The old nutter fogies drop off the end of the tail to die; their death helping to drive the whole thing forwards like releasing the brakes on your moped …. to a position that will allow us to tackle the next thorny problem.

[Tassman]

Yeah, I agree. Abbott seems the only thing blocking it, and when his own party ousts him in a year or so, same-sex marriage will probably be passed pretty quickly.

In some ways I'm quite happy with the current situation, because I think the longer Australia continues banning same-sex marriage when so much of the rest of the Western world has it, the quicker religious groups within Australia will lose members. I think prolonging the time that religious figures are saying dumb anti-gay stuff in the national media, will serve to hasten the long-term demise of religion especially in the younger generation.

https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/201...burban-church/

Enlightened? More like perverted.

No, enlightened, i.e. tolerant and accepting as opposed to bigoted and judgemental.

Wow... did you think that up all by yourself?

I'm a natural born wit. The point is the absurdity of pining for a right-wing media outlet when you have Fox.