Impending Minimum Wage hike causing restaurants to close

[Sparko]

i showed where the revenue comes from.

there is no reason to object to it , other than to keep low skilled workers 'in their place'

Your numbers don't work out. Your math is bad. a 20% increase does not fund a 300% labor increase. You think that if labor costs right now are what 25%? of the cost of the product that it is still going to be 25% of the cost of the product if you raise the wage. No, it suddenly becomes much higher percentage wise. Unless you raise the cost of the product by 300%. But the material costs will go up to because everyone is getting paid more. It is basically artificially induced inflation. The dollar become worth less as it buys less. suddenly earning 15 bucks an hour is no better than earning 7 bucks an hour.

Sam has already pointed out that todays min wage works out to less than it did in 1979 because of inflation. so even though people might be making $7.50 an hour today. , it is "worse" in his opinion than people who made $2 in 1979. When you increase the wage to $15 and everything gets more expensive, the same thing happens. Transportation costs go up, material costs go up, labor costs go up. Pretty soon that $15/hour doesn't buy so much.

[Littlejoe]

Answer me this. Why do prices go up in the first place over time?

Understand my point was a counterpoint to Bill's that a study showed that for every 1% rise in prices, there was almost an equal decrease in sales.

Are the businesses just being greedy?

that can be a yes OR no. Sometimes, when business is booming and really hot, businesses will raise prices to maximize profit...not saying that's necessarily the norm, but supply and demand usually means a hot item's price tag will go up even if the cost to the supplier doesn't. (or not as much)

Or are their costs going up behind the scenes?

Yes, usually. And that's my point, costs going up, still means the prices go up, yet, the sales don't always drop by the same or almost same amount or they would go out of business...every single one!

I remember when I could buy a big mac for under $1. Why has that changed?

Beef prices have soared...as has the cost of everything else. Thank you for making my point, even though the cost of a Big Mac is what...$3.50(?) vs $1, McDonalds did not go out of business because they raised their prices. In fact, I submit, they are still doing ok...

[Cow Poke]

i showed where the revenue comes from.

there is no reason to object to it , other than to keep low skilled workers 'in their place'

You are either being obstinate or ignorant.

And to imply that ANY of us want to "punish" low skilled workers or "keep them in their place" is sheer jackassery.

Personally, I don't WANT them to stay "low skilled workers" -- I want them to GAIN skills and ADVANCE. Simply paying them a little more to do the same menial labor is an insult to their integrity and intelligence.

It's the pinko commie liberals who want to feel good about THEMSELVES, and can't get it through their heads that there are ENTRY LEVEL jobs that are not intended to be "family supporting" jobs.

I know of THREE people who worked at McDonald's who now own a franchise - one of them owns FIVE McDondalds restaurants.

But, no --- let's keep them in their place by giving them a little more money to work in dead end jobs --- then "feel good" because we "did something".

[Littlejoe]

Usually in very small increments. Rarely in such a drastic manner as is being proposed.

(Ok, just to be clear, I'm not advocating we jump the minimum wage all the way to $15/hour overnight,)

but, obviously, we can work our way up and still not have a decrease in sales if that is true.

[jordanriver]

If someone wants a higher paying job, they can always move on, gain some skills and climb that ladder. Maybe from burger flipper to manager, then getting their own franchise, or moving to another field like I did. Everyone has to start somewhere. Nobody is going to hire someone without skills to be a nuclear scientist are they?

can every worker in America be the manager.

Can every worker in America , doing their absolute 100% best effort , be promoted to manager.


is it possible for everybody (doing their best) to be the boss, and nobody to be the, well , to be the bossed

[jordanriver]

It's the pinko commie liberals who want to feel good about THEMSELVES, and can't get it through their heads that there are ENTRY LEVEL jobs that are not intended to be "family supporting" jobs.

:

there used to be plenty of good jobs , so the left over jobs were ENTRY LEVEL jobs.

but they're gone,

people who used to have good factory jobs are now working in fast food joints because they have to support their family.

It's the pinko commie liberals who want

not a liberal, but life is turning me into a "pinko commie" (I used to be Neocon_Voter)

look,
i dont know about your neighbors

...but the people I know who work, are working 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet.

....and on the other hand there are millions who dont work at all (perhaps because the some people are taking 2 or 3 jobs instead of one job and leaving the other job for someone else with no job?)

anyway

DONT YOU SEE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE

[Littlejoe]

And the market helps to sort those out.

No Sir...not always.

They accepted those jobs at the pay offered, yes?

sure, because they had really, no other options besides walking many miles to work.



LJ

- I worked for a company the in the last 15 years that paid OVER the going rate, and gave the cadillac bluecross blueshield insurance plans to the employees at NO COST to them....

That's awesome...and where is that company now? Did they go out of business because they paid too much? Or did they sell out for the money?

And I think government policies often have a lot to do with that - it's often more "affordable" to draw welfare than to go to work. It's a totally messed up system.

Which polices? Please be specific. What policies made it to hard to make a living because wages have remained flat for the last 15-20 years?

Yeah, government "solutions". Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

What was the supposed solution it was addressing? NAFTA wasn't a solution IMO, it was pushed on us by greedy businesses who wanted to be able to move across the border and hire cheap labor and truck it back across the border with no duties or customs. I remember conservatives being in favor of NAFTA (Rush Limbaugh was a huge supporter as was a local (Dallas/Ft Worth) conservative Talk show host.

[Sam]

Your numbers don't work out. Your math is bad. a 20% increase does not fund a 300% labor increase. You think that if labor costs right now are what 25%? of the cost of the product that it is still going to be 25% of the cost of the product if you raise the wage. No, it suddenly becomes much higher percentage wise. Unless you raise the cost of the product by 300%. But the material costs will go up to because everyone is getting paid more. It is basically artificially induced inflation. The dollar become worth less as it buys less. suddenly earning 15 bucks an hour is no better than earning 7 bucks an hour.

Sam has already pointed out that todays min wage works out to less than it did in 1979 because of inflation. so even though people might be making $7.50 an hour today. , it is "worse" in his opinion than people who made $2 in 1979. When you increase the wage to $15 and everything gets more expensive, the same thing happens. Transportation costs go up, material costs go up, labor costs go up. Pretty soon that $15/hour doesn't buy so much.

Here's a chart of federal minimum wage increases since 1978:

chart_minimum-wage.jpg

And here's the inflation rate by year since 1978:

Image 001.jpgwant

[Cow Poke]

Some price increases will probably occur but the cost can also easily come from lower administrative or executive wages, reduced shareholder compensation, reduced share buyback, etc.

Sam, do you realize that the "executives" are actually in this to INCREASE their earnings? That's kinda why they take the risks and invest their money.
And, likewise, shareholders invest because they want to INCREASE their investment - to the max.

I'd love to see you walk into a shareholders meeting and explain that it'd be "easy" for them to earn LESS on their investment, or tell the owner of a franchise that he/she simply needs to earn less, and that's "easy".

[Cow Poke]

DONT YOU SEE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE

No need to yell.

Yes, there's something wrong, indeed, but I praise God that you're not in charge of fixing it.

[Mountain Man]

look,
i dont know about your neighbors

...but the people I know who work, are working 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet.

....and on the other hand there are millions who dont work at all (perhaps because the some people are taking 2 or 3 jobs instead of one job and leaving the other job for someone else with no job?)

anyway

DONT YOU SEE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE

Yes, there is something wrong, but raising the minimum wage isn't the answer.

Let's put it this way: Do you really think McDonald's is going to pay an uneducated and unskilled worker (basically, you're typical liberal voter) $15/hour to flip burgers? Of couse not. At that kind of pay scale, burger flipper is suddenly going to become an in-demand job, and McDonald's will have its pick of experienced and qualified burger flippers all vying for the lucrative burger flipper position while the typical liberal voter will encounter a dearth of entry level jobs and will make fast-tracks to the nearest unemployment line.

[jordanriver]

(basically, you're typical liberal voter).

i vote against prochoicers

i.e., i end up voting on behalf of America's "HAVES"

[Sam]

Sam, do you realize that the "executives" are actually in this to INCREASE their earnings? That's kinda why they take the risks and invest their money.
And, likewise, shareholders invest because they want to INCREASE their investment - to the max.

I'd love to see you walk into a shareholders meeting and explain that it'd be "easy" for them to earn LESS on their investment, or tell the owner of a franchise that he/she simply needs to earn less, and that's "easy".

why not also get nostalgic for when executive compensation was only 30x more than entry-level pay and not 300x?

Image 002.jpg

[jordanriver]

Yes, there is something wrong, but raising the minimum wage isn't the answer.

Let's put it this way: Do you really think McDonald's is going to pay an uneducated and unskilled worker (basically, you're typical liberal voter) $15/hour to flip burgers? Of couse not. At that kind of pay scale, burger flipper is suddenly going to become an in-demand job, and McDonald's will have its pick of experienced and qualified burger flippers all vying for the lucrative burger flipper position while the typical liberal voter will encounter a dearth of entry level jobs and will make fast-tracks to the nearest unemployment line.

I think you just said everybody who flips burgers at McDonalds, sucks

[jordanriver]

No need to yell.

Yes, there's something wrong, indeed, but I praise God that you're not in charge of fixing it.

that was the reply to jordanriver who wants to be in charge of "fixing it"

I'd love to see you walk into a shareholders meeting and explain that it'd be "easy" for them to earn LESS on their investment, or tell the owner of a franchise that he/she simply needs to earn less, and that's "easy".

that was Cow Poke's reply to Sam,

but I would like to walk into the shareholders meeting , while in charge of "fixing it"

...with arrest warrants for the shareholders and executives for treason, exporting American jobs in order to enrich themselves.